Point cam lube...what's best?

Hello Chuck,

how are you ?
The correct grease and specially designed from Bosch is the Ft1v4.
It's designed for this one and only purpose. VERY thick and viscous stuff.
I have a huge tube of it. See attached picture.
And I would like to send you a bit of it, for instance filled into a film canister or similar.
Do not use any oil or bearings grease, because the least thing you want to have is grease or oil on the contacts.
Will send you an additional message to your private e-Mail address.

Best Regards from Germany

Martin
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Boy, I really had to think on this one, because its such an age old question that it seems everyone just forgot. I just remember Dad telling me to use 10W oil. Then I remember other old guys simply putting on it whatever was in the engine. So I did a search, and its funny but no one else seems to remember to well either. Probably when Ferrari put that in the owners manual they just assumed everyone knew, and didnt feel it was neccesary to go into scientific detail. Searching online, the closest two things I could find with any authority were a site on Wisconsin stationary industrial engines, and one on Velocette motorcycles. Somewhere packed down in a box I have a 1920 to 1950 Motor Manual on all the old cars, I am pretty sure its in that book what to use, but its not rocket science, were talking about a wick here, think "oil lamp".

So, the felt wick that rubs on the cam is intended to be oiled with engine oil. One or two drops should be enough. If the wick is old and dried out, replace it. Its just felt, you can find felt anywhere, it does not need to have a lil horsey on it or anything. And simularly, its just oil, any kind will pretty much work, and again, nothing special. It can be dino or synthetic, and almost any viscosity, just so long as its oil. Like an old instructor once told me, any oil is better than no oil.

But seriously, I would not get any grease anywhere near that wick, it would only foul it up and prevent it from acting as a wick as it was intended. Just like an oil lamp, the wick absorbs the oil, and as its rubbed off at the rotating cam, it slowly disipates equally throughout the wick. How would grease flow through a felt wick? Also, its not intended to sling copious amounts of oil all over the distributor and short out the points, its intended simply to keep a fine layer of oil film on the cam to prevent wear, nothing more. Generally, whatever is working in the crankcase should be sufficient for the points oil wick. This serves the purpose of winter or summer having lighter or heavier grades so that the oil will flow onto the cam, and everyone will be happy.

 

o.k.; I think we 're talking about different things here.
Is the wick or however it's called, which acts on the distributor cams and opens the contacts really just felt ? Almost can't imagine, because this thing makes the dwell angle.
I can't check it, because I have the later electronic ignition.
On the Bosch distributors I know of, that sliding part, which acts on the cams MUST be lubricated with that grease from my previous post and is made of some duroplastics stuff. But the wick in the center of the distributor shaft must be lubricated with a drop of engine oil.

Best Regards from Germany

Martin

 

Gents,

AFAIK Martin is right; the cam gets some of the special grease, and the wick some oil. The wick has nothing to do with the points, but lets oil into the bottom of the distributor where the advance weights are, and keeps them free. At least all other distributors \i've seen work likr that.

My 0,02 Rands,

Jack

 

No no no no no. The wick rubs directly on the points cam. As the distributor rotates, the wick, which is in direct surface contact with the rotating cam surface, sloughs off oil that is absorbed into the felt material. The wick has absolutely nothing to do with the advance weights or anything else inside the distributor, its simply there to keep the cam wear surface that the points rubbing blocks ride against, lubricated.

The advance weights are lubricated only with heavy grease, and only with the distributor disassembled on a bench. Oil down inside the advance unit would just sling off and make a real muckin fess. The cam bore that slips over the rotor shaft should also be greased (not oiled) at the same time the unit is disassembled and serviced on the bench. The only in service lubrication should be to the felt wick itself, and only with engine oil.

If excess oil were to find its way onto the points gaps, it would burn and carbonise from the arcing and foul up the surface gap with carbon. Just put a drop or two max on the felt and leave it alone. It does not need to be dripping with oil. Do not oil anything inside the unit other than the wick. Seriously, you could take oil directly off the dip stick, using the same oil thats in the motor, and just place the end of the stick on the felt and let it have a drop. BTDT. This is not some critical issue that requires any special lubricant from Timbucto Africa or Hackensack Minnesota or any other obscure place in the world, just plain old simple motor oil. You could just as easily use mineral oil, clock oil, or Mazola, the cam wont really care, just so it gets some kind of light oil. Running it dry will cause rapid wear of both the points rubbing blocks as well as the cam surface, which while shortening the life of both the cam, and the points, and ultimately will cause a rapid reduction in points gap, with all the issues that that entails.

I have worked on many distributors from almost every American and european car built since the late 1960's, and some way older, including many industrial and stationary engines as well as aircraft magnetos. Even older lawn mower, motorcycle, and outboard motor engines with points have wicks, and I can assure everyone here that all points ignition systems having a felt rubbing wick in contact with the points cam, have it there solely to lubricate the points cam, and nothing more. Some older Lucas and many old antique car distributors had grease cups to lube the upper distributor bushing, just give it a 1/4 turn twist every so often, but I have never seen any distributor that had any source of lubricating advance weights while the unit was in service. And to be honest, until I got the first 308, it had been almost 20 years since I played with points. Ive maybe forgotten a great deal, but I also can remember a lot of things.

If the wick is old and dried out, or hard, or shoved off to the side, many times it can be brought back to life by removing it and squeezing oil into it and working it with your fingers. Once it softens up, squeeze it out good into a shop rag and put it back in so that its thoroughly in contact with the cam. Most of the stuff I have seen in my lifetime, including airplanes, have NEVER been serviced properly, and in the case of these wicks, most are missing, or are so dried up from lack of service to be useless. And as this thread eludes to, no one even remembers anymore what its purpose was for in the first place.

 

Paul;

o.k., this might apply to the Marelli distributors with contacts, but have you ever seen a Bosch distributor from the inside ?
I think so, because you wrote, that you have worked on many european cars.
Look at the attached picture. This is a contact set from a '72 Alfa Romeo GTV It shows a VERY common Bosch points design, how it was used on most of their distributors till the early 80s. This doesn't look like a felt wick, doesn't it ? It's a solid duroplastics lever.
Each genuine Bosch set of points you purchase, includes a tiny amount of that Ft1v4 grease for lubricating the contact cam.
For this one and only purpose - when you read the description on the tube - this grease is designed for, although Allen S. Bishop ( Ferrari book - Guide to Performance ) uses it for lubricating the carburettor throttle bearings. But this is a completely different story.

Do I have to dismantle one of my old Bosch distributors now to take photographs ?
Also the wick in the center of the shaft, which you see when removing the rotor is in fact for lubricating the shaft and keeping the advance weights in good working order. On the older distributors there is also a felt between the two shaft bearing bushings.



Now that I know, that on the Marelli distributors the contact is controlled by a felt wick I'm happy to have the breakerless version. Now I don't wonder any more, why repeated dwell adjustment is necessary on many of these cars. If you ask me; that's a severe design fault.


Best Regards from Germany

Martin
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From page 69 of the owners manual ('74 308 GT4):

"Every 6000 mls: remove the caps and wet the wick A with some drops of vaseline oil."

Regards
Harry

 

You cannot believe how good your car will run with Perlux electronic ignition. I wouldn't even bother to pull the distributor cap without getting rid of the points.

I've spent many years making points work perfectly, but the bottom line is that the very best day that points have is not as good as the worst day of electronic trigger(s).

 

Okay, I'm scratching my head. My Lucas distributor is supposed to have a drop or two of oil dripped into the center shaft: you pull the rotor off and there's a litttle arrow with the word "oil". I use Mavel Mystery oil. What is this for? I assumed it got slung around to keep the advance weights lubricated but having never taken one apart, I really have no idea. Can you shed some light on this?

Ken

 

Well, lets compare apples to, ...... rocks?

Martin~

Yes, ive seen them. However, I plainly understood that we were talking about Ferrari 308 distributors that had "wick's". If your going to find some cheap obscure distributor that has no felt wick, I dont think anything about which I commented on would apply. And its more than obvious that Bosch, knowing the average car owner wouldnt know what to do with a felt wick if it bit them on the nose, simply left it off those units. But on a 308 with points there is a very visable and obvious felt wick. If yours dont have one, its missing. If its there, and you have points, oil it. I really dont know how to explain it much more than that.

Ken~

I have no clue, I cant see it from here.

Jm3~

I got stranded with a guy in a 308 QV on a late sunday afternoon, almost 300 miles from home, when one of his dinoplex boxes failed. I doubt you or anyone else is carrying spare parts along with when you go on road trips. What will you do when YOU have an ignition failure? I can fix a set of points with a screw driver by the side of the road. What are you going to do when your system fails, call a flat bed? Personally, I like to drive way out of cellular service areas and enjoy my car as it was intended. The last thing I need to worry about is some POS electronics going tits up on me. If I leave home with points dwell reading normal, you can just about bet it will read normal when I get home. Its pretty bulletproof that way. The cars I learned to drive on and grew up with all had points, and I cant recall a single one of them that ever left me sitting by the side of the road. But electronic ignition cars have sure done it, so many times I couldnt count them all.

As I have commented before, Enzo Ferrari won over 5000 victories mostly on points ignition, including 9 wins at LeMans (all on points), 7 at the Targa Florio (all on points), 8 at the Mille Miglia (all on points), 8 formula one constructors titles, and 9 world title formula one victories (all mostly on points). Seeing as how most of his 5000 victories were with points ignition with Magnetti Marelli distributors virtually identical to what our 308 has, I would argue its world class. And if you guys cant figure out how to make it work, when it worked virtually flawlessly over 50 plus years ago, I would argue your missing something somewhere.

 

I use a grease called "Lubricam" on distributor cams. I apply an almost invisible amount with the tip of a jewelers screwdriver to the cam where it contacts the rubbing block on the points.

 

At least some Bosch systems have a split drive shaft that turns the cam. If you hold the bottom of the shaft and turn the top it will rotate for about 10 -20 degrees against a spring. This retards the ignition on sudden acceleration and is part of the bob weight advance system. You pour drops of oil down the centre of the shaft {after removing the rotor} to lubricate the rotating joint and spring. I have seen them locked solid due to lavk of oil.