Please, Someone Tell Me, What Is The Purpose Of Drifting?

+ 1 million

oops! Haha!
Thanks John.

 

Drifting a turn is one skill in vehicle control. So, from that perspective, it's a start. But if you let it be an end onto itself, there's a lot more that you'd miss.

"there just might be more than one way to our final destination" ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZE1u7yj1jvs

 

I've got to say that I didn't want to like drifting, but after seeing the demonstrations before the Long Beach GP the past couple years, I really enjoy watching it.

That said, the thing that still bothers me about the whole drifting "thing" is how there seems to be an attitude that it was just invented by todays "drifters". As has been said by others, the four-wheel drift was a legitimate technique in the 1950s and 60s.

 

Please do not confuse the four-wheel drift with this modern expression. Yes it is similar but the fundamental reasons are completely different.

I'll explain :
All cars that corner hard drift, yes tyres don't have perfect sideways grip thus there is always a slip angle ... you corner hard enough and the car will either have a understeering or oversteering attitude. An oversteering attitude is a drift at it's simpliest form.

Years ago to solve terminal understeer due to primative suspension systems (ie. flexible chassis' and beam axles ... right up to the 60's where thanks to the British, particularly Colin Chapman we started to understand stiff chassis' and roll centres, etc.) Tazio Nuvolari created what is now called the 4 wheel drift.

The purpose of this drift was to get through the corner the fastest way possible and end up pointing the straightest possible so you could get on the throttle nice and early.

This modern form of drifting does nothing of the sort and simply wastes time, but even modern race cars (yep F1 too) drift, even go karts, but as anybody who wants to lap fast knows excessive drifting is just wanking ... .
Pete
ps: Unfortunately modern F1 cars are too fast and drift so little it is very hard to see ... but get a really good photo, or slow motion sequence and it's there.

 

Ron if you really want to take a broad view of the whole thing what's the point of ANY kind of racing? The really isn't any point to any of it other than pure entertainment and all sorts of racing is wasteful (spare me the "well many safety innovations were due to racing", BS race cars don't even have airbags like street cars do. ABS and Trac control could have very easily been developed in a lab as well, the teams that innovated did so to win, not to make your roadcar safer). However to those of us with the passion for whatever form of racing that turns you on it's very meaningful. If drifting is your thing go out there and get your fill, a gearhead is a gearhead.

Luis

 

Bollocks.

Why do runners run harder than the next guy?, why do they aim for the Olympics?. Most race cars, not for pure fun or entertainment of the crowd (like WTF, who gives a toss about them) but to prove to THEMSELVES what they are made of, that they can drive, etc.

I assume that you are an American (checked and I am correct) ... as they always have this BS view that motorsport is just entertainment. Tell that to Mario Andretti when he was growing up as an Italian child in a new country ... what motivated him?. It most definitely was not to become a 'celib' or to entertain YOU (that may have come later). No wonder you have no credible American drivers ... their motivation is fncked thinking that racing is another cr@ppy episode of Big Brother or something.

Pete

 

You missed the point Pete. The whole point is if I don't have the passion for motorsports then I could care less if you're faster than the guy in the other car. Just like if you don't have a passion for say baseball then you could give a crap about the Yankees or whomever. Racing is, after all about the show. Period. No fans to watch, no racing. Being the best racing driver in the world might motivate people to do it but if no one is there to watch then who cares? Oh and by the way I read an old book, many years back by none other than Mario Andretti named "What's it like out there" and he stated the reasons why he became a racing driver and beating the next guy and all that stuff was in there. As was to make a boatload of cash in the process (not an exact quote, too many years back) . If you want to romantise it OK, good for you, but don't think that any sportsman in general doesn't think about making a buck if he can in the process. Senna, Prost and MS didn't drive for free. Racing is a business and it's all about the show.

 

I still don't agree that the show comes first, or even money.

Think about this: If somebody did not want to race somebody else in the first place ... there would be no racing. That motivation which has to come first had nothing to do with spectators, other than to promote their product (ie. the origins of motorsport) or abillity behind the wheel.

I raced for 9 years ... no price money, no sponsorship, could not care less if somebody came to watch, etc. ... but loved every minute of it. This is the background the professional driver comes from.

Damn lost my point ... work interrupted , hate that when that happens ...

Anyway yes drifting is a show, because there is nothing else. Racing is still about winning first (although I have raced against people that were prepared to discuss finishing order before the race ... which I effectively gave them the single finger too ).
Pete
ps: Maybe we are discussing the difference between a spectator and a driver ... a spectator is all about the show (I guess) but the driver isn't, except for the camera, which is really just to insure he/she gets the best car for racing, etc. Also the only time a driver is every interested in spectators is in how much money they have access to to provide a BETTER car!.

 

That's the whole point. You raced for pure love of the sport as I have and many others have. But in the grand scheme of things what does you or I or whomever being faster than another person in a car mean to anyone else. Most people at large don't care. Racing in general has no real meaningful purpose. Drifting has no purpose but like like any sort of racing it's all about being better than the next guy. It's all about passion. If you love it then you just do. To some it seems like a frivolous activity and in some ways it is. But to myself and many others it's my first love.

 

racerx3317,

Oh you were meaning the 'drivers' person entertainment, not the spectators ... now I understand where you were coming from .

I thought you meant racing was purely for the spectators entertainment.
Pete

 

Luis...

Racing is decisive. You know who the winner is.

Drifting is judged, just like figure skating.

Drifters might as well be wearing the same skirts as figure skaters.

 

Back in the '70s, even the "national" rallyes had almost no spectators, much less club rallye -- hardly anyone in the US had ever heard of it. No fans, few sponsors, no media coverage.

Who cares? Well, there's the woman that didn't get killed running a stop sign because I could control a car on snow, .... or a dozen other situations that having driving skills got me out of.

Who cares? How high are your insurance rates? How much higher do they go when nobody has a clue what they're doing behind the wheel? (The US is getting to that point, now.)

Who cares? Does your car have disc brakes? They could have been developed in a lab. But would they have been? What would have been the incentive for manufacturers to spend money figuring out how to make cars stop better if the only demand was for appliances to get from "A" to "B"? (We're getting there, too.)

Who cares? Ferrari only built street machines to pay for racing. Without racing, no Ferraris, no FerrariChat, and we wouldn't be having this discussion.


I think the objections come down to the issue of drifting being considered an end unto itself. It's like going to a baseball game that doesn't have base running or fielding or batters -- just a game of catch between the pitcher and the catcher. And some dweeb selling tickets to it like it's an "event". (We really have raised a generation of "perfect consumers".)

And consider the approach of your argument: Does the notion that racing has "no point" somehow validate "drifting" as a sport? "There's no point to anything, so it doesn't matter what you do."? This is the ideology of the younger generation?

 

A lot of sports are are judged, it doesn't make it any less difficult. It looks like a hell of a lot of fun to me. Like i've said many times a car guy is just that a car guy, what you do with it is up to you. Always cool in my book. Why is everyone so elitist in here? Jeez, just go out and enjoy your ride.

 

That's not the point of my agruement, you missed my point. It's bothersome to me that some people tend to try to make the form of racing they like into the end all, be all car activity. If you don't like F1 and you like NASCAR you're a dweeb, if you like F1 and don't like Champcars you're a dweeb, etc, etc. A gearhead is just that, no matter what kind of racing they are into. Just about any new form of motorsport that draws new people into the sport is a positive thing, regardless of whether you or I like it. The whole point i'm trying to make is that racing, in general is considered to be frivolous (not by me of course), how can anyone say well all that drifting does is destroy tires when the average F1team's budget is astronomical? How is one thing less wasteful than the other? It's just a different form of motorsport that is very popular with the younger generation. Do I do it? No. Do I watch it on TV? No. But I respect the skills that are being displayed and the hard work and dedication that it takes to become good at it. Playing catch as you stated, doesn't take a whole lot of skills. This is something different. Also, I'm pretty sure one of those drifters can handle a car in bad weather conditions too.

As far as insurance rates go, that's a whole other story but i've always felt that drivers get far too little training in general before they are turned loose on the streets. The auto and the oil industry are huge in this country and it is in thier best interest that more people have licenses hence cars. Draw your own conclusion, that situation isn't gonna change.

 

You're still arguing that if all motorsports are "wasteful" then drifting is a motorsport.

Drifting isn't "racing" -- getting there first or quickest doesn't win. Do speed skaters get "style points"? Do rallye drivers get "style points"? (Okay, in autocross, we did give style points for "most spectacular spin-off", but that was the booby prize, like "DLBF: Dead Last, But Finished" in rallye.)

Is fingerpainting a sport? Sculpture? Ballroom dancing?

You might argue that drifting is an art. But a sport?

Sports are about maxima: most weight lifted, quickest time over a course, furthest standing jump. "Style" is about advertising and aesthetics.

If F1 had to worry about the "style" points from the "east german judge", Alonso would never have won the WDC.

 

Dude, if they can call golf a sport then drifting is too, lol. it just a different form of motorsport. Whether it's a "real" sport is debatable.

 

Golf is "men in ugly pants, walking".

If drifting gets the younger generation interested in "motorsports", that's a good thing - maybe. But if they stop there, they miss a whole lot.

If the "consumer" doesn't demand more, the producers won't need to provide more. If the drivers don't demand more challenges, in 20 years "drifting" might be the "good old days".

Beware the "path of least resistance".

 

Sorry, golf isn't judged. It's decisive, but it's also a game, not exactly "sport".

Dorifto ain't a sport. Sorry.

 

I think its a generation gap thing, there's always newer stuff created by the "youth of the day" that "older people just don't get". (and I mean teen vs older, even some 20-somethings just dont get drifting).

I also am not all that impressed by drifting, competition or just show offs on the street (copying "The Fast and The Furious".

However, I'm sure my jaunts in the rolling hills around my small town in Tennessee didn't exactly excite the "retirees" as I zoomed around thier houses on a Sunday morning back in the early 80s. I'm guessing the average age of my hometown (THEN AND NOW) is probably 55 or 60.

Chalk it up to the age difference, and someone doesn't like it, they don't have to watch.

I choose not to watch .

James in Denver

 

Actually these guys are looking for maximum grip to maintain forward (or shall i say sideways) motion.

I went testing with a pro drift team last week and it is definitely a motor-sport. I rode in the car to get a feeling of the car and help to understand the drivers feedback. It takes a very similar skill set to drive a real drift car as it does a real rally car.

I was skeptical a couple of years ago too, especially coming from a road racing background, but once I witnessed a drift event first hand, I was very impressed with the drivers control. Sure It's not running a rally or running Pikes Peak, but these pro guys are actually very talented. 92 mph sideways at Irwindale is really not to be sneezed at.

Either way, each to his own. Don't like it, don't watch it... but I don't think it's going away.

 

Drifting takes skill. Little doubt of that. There is another guy in another car on track at the same time trying to beat you. A sport in my view, decisive or not. Figure skating at 50 mph sideways? Maybe. But still cool.....

 

Drifting is like masturbating....kind of fun to do, but not much fun to watch.

Jack

 

When I was in my early teens, I did drag racing (in a '55 Chevy no less). Yes, we blew out clouds of tire smoke. When I got older, I discovered turns, and shifted to Fiat -- and have owned italian cars since.

Drag racing was nowhere near the fun I had in rallye. I shudder to think what I'd have missed, if I hadn't ignored comments from my drag racing friends and moved on to bigger things.

If drifting is "just a teen thing", that may be okay as a starter -- like the kiddie slope in skiing.

But I worry that the younger generation is satisfied with less, in an era where half the drivers on the road seem to feel "guilty" about even being in a motor vehicle. (And want to have as little as possible to do with the driving experience.)

So does painting, but Michelangelo is no Michael Schumacher.

 

Drifting is a sport invented by tire companies to make lots of money.

 

....and you don't wear out rubber mastrubating!