Photos of fried F40 Fusebox | FerrariChat

Photos of fried F40 Fusebox

Discussion in '288GTO/F40/F50/Enzo/LaFerrari' started by WILLIAM H, Aug 26, 2005.

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  1. WILLIAM H

    WILLIAM H Three Time F1 World Champ

    Nov 1, 2003
    35,532
    Victory Circle
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    HUBBSTER
    #1 WILLIAM H, Aug 26, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  2. 512Professore

    512Professore Karting

    Feb 3, 2004
    145
    USA, GA.
    Full Name:
    Brian Strasburg
    William,

    I think you may have surfaced a very interesting issue with Ferrari fuse/relay control boxes that may be affecting many cars. Several years ago, I recall an owner of another F40 that was having a problem with a bank of cylinders cutting out. This guy gave me a ride so that perhaps I could help pinpoint the problem. It was an inter-mitten problem, but only seemed to occur after a peroid of being driven - meaning everything was up to temperature, then all of a sudden he would lose a bank of cylinders. I immediately knew it was related to the electronics, but didn't have the tools with me to test sensors and their connections. He subsequently took it to a dealer, and they (the dealer) scoped out the wiring harness, used the factory SD-1 or whatever, and couldn't find a problem. Then the dealer said it was an internal mechanical problem, so the guy paid mega $$$ for an engine rebuild, but the problem persisted. I think the guy ended up selling the car, but not sure what finally happened. I think your mechanic pinpointed the problem very quickly to being the relay/fuse control box.

    From the photos you posted, all that brown residue is not from an overheated or fried circuit board. That brown stuff is all the solder flux residue left over from the wave solder machine, and it was never cleaned after its manufacture. Typically, the solder flux residue is not a problem, as it is non-conductive and shouldn't produce any direct shorts, or high resistance shorts to ground. The real problem is with it's design and how it is made. I don't know if you have tried to take the whole thing apart beyond what your pictures depicts, but I am willing to bet that the circuit board is actually composed of several layers, and each one of the top layers is a paper thin plastic substrate with the circuit traces being photo etched, just like a normal printed wiring board. The bottom layer, or the main substrate is actually a thick piece of fiber glass with the photo etched wire traces, and the bottom layer is probably OK. The problem with the design, it that these paper thin layers become delaminated after a period time through the heat and age of conducting the electric current to the various components. An EFI controlled engine actually draws a lot of current, and the design of the relay/fuse box is inadequate to handle this amount of electrical over time, and hense it fails internally. These Ferrari relay/fuse boxes are not "conformal coated" to keep out moisture and such, as is done with mulit-layer industrial or military grade circuit boards. Also, a military, or industrial grade printed multi-layer circuit board uses thick fiberglass for each layer in the assembly, instead of the Ferrari design using these paper thin layers of plastic.

    Typically, multi-layer circuit boards can't be repaired, however a good cleaning with the proper chemicals might restore your relay/fuse control box, but I really doubt it.

    Actually, your timing in posting this thread is interesting, as my 512TR has inter-mitten starting problems, but only after its been run for some time, then if let to cool down, it will start again. At one time in the past, I had fixed this same problem, and traced it to the relay/fuse control box, and discovered that a phantom voltage of 5.7 vdc was appearing on the lead going to the starter solenoid. This not normal, as it should be either 0 vdc or 12 vdc when engaging the starter. I found a bad relay that controls the high beams had an internal high resistance short to ground. This relay was also internally wired (via the circuit board) to the key services relay in the circuit board. So, in diagnosing the same problem this time around, I assumed it to be another bad relay, but NO SUCH LUCK.

    At this point, I have the relay/fuse control box removed (as you have done), removed the bottom black plastic cover and saw all this solder flux residue and it looks almost identical to the photo you have posted. On my circuit board, the top two layers are paper thin and have separated from the main substrate. So, I am assuming, that after a period of current flowing through the board (remember the fuel pumps, the injectors and the ECU draw considerable amounts of current), the board heats up, then warps, then creates this inter-mitten starting problem. If your case, it creates a condition in which a back of cylinders cuts out. The warpage in the circuit board creates a high resistance short to ground, which causes some of the current needed to keep the engine electronics satisfied, to be diverted away from its intended design destination, and hence not enough current to keep the electronics functioning.

    In my case, the failure is not a "soft" failure in which it only happens after a period of being driven, but the phantom 5.7 vdc is always apparent, even when completely cold.

    It seems as though these Ferrari relay/fuse circuit boards only last 10-12 years, and perhaps a warm climate like you live in, has accelerated the problem. Do you recall all the electrical "gremlins" that caused the F1 race cars problems in the past? You now see the F1 teams using military grade electronics and components, and the same is true for AMLS and GrandAM DP cars as well.

    Like you, I am positive that I must find a new relay/fuse control box for the car. It only takes minutes to swap them out. If I find a new box, maybe I will install a small pancake fan, like those used inside PC's, and keep air flowing in and around the box.

    I can only hope that Ferrari has improved the design and manufacturing process on these boards over the years, and that a new one will be better.

    I don't know if this really helps you out much, but I had to post a reply as I see many commonalities.

    Perhaps we should buy all the available relay/fuse boxes for the F-cars made between 1988 and 1995, hoard them away and create a supply/demand issue much like the OIL crap that is now with us all. (LOL)

    Forza Ferrari,
    Brian
     
  3. WILLIAM H

    WILLIAM H Three Time F1 World Champ

    Nov 1, 2003
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    Thanks Brian, that was quite detailed.

    I had a similar problem w my 512TR & I replaced the fuse panel in that

    Now I have to find some spark plug wires for the 512TR
     
  4. JaguarXJ6

    JaguarXJ6 F1 Veteran

    Feb 12, 2003
    5,459
    Black Hawk, CO
    Full Name:
    Sunny
    The only problem with introducing additional air flow with a fan is moisture and dust, also electronic circuit board killers. Believe it or not, you might want to investigate submersing electronic components you can't get any more, such as F40 circuit boards. :D The price you'll pay for one of those will probably far outweigh the cost in a better cooling solution.

    Just one example out of hundreds,
    http://www.g4tv.com/techtvvault/features/37083/Submerge_Your_Computer.html

    Sunny
     
  5. Dino 208gt4

    Dino 208gt4 F1 World Champ

    Jun 24, 2003
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    Roel
  6. F40MANIAC

    F40MANIAC Rookie

    Jul 28, 2008
    2
    ENGLAND
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    Paul
    Actually there is a specialist Company in England that does repair these boards. The F40 board is made up of 4 layers & does deteriorate over time , giving some strange problems - suffered complete electrical power loss until inside of car warmed up.

    Rardley Motors in Grayshott, England were able to help me out for a very reasonable £295.00 against £3000 odd for a new one...
     
  7. PAP 348

    PAP 348 Nine Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Dec 10, 2005
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    Mount Isa, Australia
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    Pap

    Welcome to Fchat Paul!! :D:D
     
  8. RufMD

    RufMD F1 Rookie
    Owner

    Jan 31, 2004
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    Jas

    I'll make a note of that for future reference...thanks and welcome :)
     
  9. Robin

    Robin F1 Rookie

    Nov 1, 2003
    2,931
    Arlington, VA
    Looks like Hubbell Electronics needs to start up an automotive division ;)

    -R
     
  10. ferraridk

    ferraridk Rookie

    Dec 30, 2005
    40
    Denmark
    Full Name:
    Peter Fink
    I have been working since 1990 with production of space electronics.

    Looking at these pictures shows unbelievable bad workmanship. Looks like the boards are handsoldered but have not beeing subject to any cleaning or coating process after assembly. Automotive environment is some of the worst condictions for electronics with extended temperatures and varying humidity. No wounder you guys get problems with the electronics in these Fcars after 6 to 10 years.
     
  11. stradman

    stradman Formula 3

    Jan 8, 2004
    1,284
    London UK
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    Stradman
    Nice one Paul! Welcome!!
    I'll certainly bear that in mind too.
     
  12. WILLIAM H

    WILLIAM H Three Time F1 World Champ

    Nov 1, 2003
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    actually they fixed it for me

    when my mechanic asked if he could send them some more they said

    "No way"

    shame, at least we have the Hubbell race car
     
  13. bgck13

    bgck13 Formula Junior

    Feb 7, 2007
    304
    Somewhere
    Now this is what I call and informative post.


    Great Post!

     
  14. dmaxx3500

    dmaxx3500 Formula 3

    Jul 19, 2008
    1,027
    if we can get a circuit board to use ,we can get some made alot cheaper then from the ferrari factory
     
  15. theunissenguido

    theunissenguido Formula 3
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Jan 21, 2004
    2,371
    Argent/Brasil
    Full Name:
    Guido
    #15 theunissenguido, Jan 5, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2020
    For those who still are looking for a F40 fusebox (or other models like 288 gto, mondials, TR, testarossa, 328, 400i, 412, 550, 456, 512TR) replacement :, I make them new since 2007. There are 139 boards installed to great satisfaction of the owners and prices are very social.
    Boards for F40, 288GTO, mondial, testarossa, TR, 328, 400i, 412 prices on request ;
    Boards for 550, 456, 512TR prices on request ;
    For those who are intrested or want more information, please send me a mail to : [email protected] or start a conversation.
    Guido
    PS : I'm very honnored that even GTO engineering UK/US is selling my boards.
    https://www.gtopartsshop.com/en-gb/ferrari/el99677n_new_f40-fuse-board_part-no-62425800
     
    schao likes this.

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