Parts and Oil Recomdations | FerrariChat

Parts and Oil Recomdations

Discussion in '365 GT4 2+2/400/412' started by imcc, May 16, 2007.

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  1. imcc

    imcc Rookie

    Jan 18, 2007
    5
    Going through my 1985 400i finally...
    Managed to get all 12 cylinders running after getting the cams in time again.
    Replaced all injector seals and swaybar and transmission bushings...
    Turned rotors, new pads, caliper paint for looks and flushed brake fluid.

    Now on for the rest.

    Any recomendations on supplier for all suspension bushings?
    T Rutlands has all parts in stock but around $1800 including new tierod ends.

    Any recomendations for oil brand and weight?

    s/n 53079 red 400ia with black leather no sunroof for those keeping track...
     
  2. dstacy

    dstacy F1 World Champ
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    Jan 23, 2006
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    Dave
    Suspension parts are indeed expensive for these cars, sorry. Because of the weight they eat up the bushings pretty fast.

    Not to doubt you, but I show 53079 as a 1984 not 85 car.

    Where are you located?
     
  3. imcc

    imcc Rookie

    Jan 18, 2007
    5
    Titles shows 1985... But door plate show a 1984 build date.
     
  4. imcc

    imcc Rookie

    Jan 18, 2007
    5
    I am located in Cincinnati. What information do you have on this car Dave?

    Thanks in advance
     
  5. blkprlz

    blkprlz Formula 3

    Mar 24, 2007
    2,169
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    Bruce
    I find Dennis McCann out of Ohio to be reasonable---www.allferrariparts.com

    As for oil, orig. spec was Agip 10w/50---Remember that sweet smell in the service dept. decades ago?--Its been most often recommended to me to use Castrol 20w/50, also told that Agip was partial synthethic--but DO NOT USE pure synthetic as this will attack seals.

    Hopes this helps.
     
  6. SouthJersey400i

    SouthJersey400i Formula 3

    Mar 14, 2007
    1,591
    Romulus, NY (Finger Lakes)
    Full Name:
    Ken Battle
    Bruce
    Does your comment apply to all synthetics? Do you know why it will attack the seals? I work with a former lube oil developer and wish to discuss this with him.

    Does anyone have data to support this point?
    Ken
     
  7. b3tech

    b3tech Karting

    Apr 17, 2007
    100
    Los Gatos CA
    Full Name:
    Boyd Bowdish
    it is a known fact that with the introduction of Viton into the automotive industry, synthetic oils are no longer an issue. ANY old seal will be made from Buna and will compromised when the synthetic oils breakdown from wear and heat.

    Make sure to ask what the materials are for all new parts installed.

    Oil suggestion for original engines - SWEEPCO 20/50. It's excellent.
     
  8. blkprlz

    blkprlz Formula 3

    Mar 24, 2007
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    Bruce
    Hey Ken,
    By the sounds of Boyd's message, it appears that synthetics of a Viton 'base'(?)is not a problem if changed before 'breakdown' occurs(#miles?)...I'll need a couple of days or so to check former sources about my and Boyd's response an data support.


    Hey Boyd,
    Did I interpret your response correctly?
    Thanks for your input!
    Bruce
     
  9. SouthJersey400i

    SouthJersey400i Formula 3

    Mar 14, 2007
    1,591
    Romulus, NY (Finger Lakes)
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    Ken Battle
    Bruce
    No, you missed the mark. Viton and Buna are types of rubber used for seals. Viton is much more chemical resistant than Buna.

    My question is more about the oils. Originally Mobil 1 was poly alpha olefin (PAO). It no longer is. It is made from crude oil now but with extensive hydro-treatment. (I'm a chemical engineer and know how this stuff is done.)

    Red Line is totally different, It is a poly methyl ester of sorts; I don;t have the name handy.

    So I am not sure that ALL synthetics will harm Buna seals. They are not all the same chemically. So I am hoping for more detail info.
    Ken
     
  10. markcF355

    markcF355 F1 Rookie
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    Jun 6, 2004
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    Red Line's product info says the use "Red Line lubricants are unique because they contain PE Polyol Ester base stocks..."

    Do you think this is safe for the seals?

    I was thinking of using their 5W40 in winter the 15W50 in summer.

    Any thoughts?
     
  11. Glassman

    Glassman F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Silver Subscribed

    Now this seems like a new twist to me. With people in other threads suggesting only Synthetic for any engine, I find these comments pretty confusing. So what's the deal here. When has it come to light that synthetic oil eats gaskets? What age of gaskets are prone to this disintegration. More info please!!!
     
  12. markcF355

    markcF355 F1 Rookie
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    You and me both.
     
  13. F1 MONZA

    F1 MONZA Formula Junior

    Sep 6, 2004
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    California
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    John
    FOR THE LAST 2 MONTHS OR SO I HAVE BEEN LEARNING ABOUT OIL. I TOO NEED TO REPLACE MY OIL. I HAVE CONTACTED BOTH AGIP USA AND MOTUL OIL COMPANY, I HAVE PURCHASED AGIP 5-50 FULL SYNTHETIC PC OIL FOR MY F512M. I PAID $200.00 USD FOR 12 QUARTS..

    AGIP EUROSPORT SPECS

    ISO GRADE SAE 5-50

    VISCOSITY @ 40.C 127.2

    VISCOSITY @ 100.C 19.0

    VISCOSITY INDEX MIN 169

    FLASH POINT .F -45

    POUR POINT .F 465

    GRAVITY API 34.8

    ALSO HAS
    RATING
    SL
    API
    CF
    ACEA
    A2/96
    JASO

    PROVIDES SUPERIOR PROTECTION AGAINST VISCOSITY AND THERMAL BREAKDOWN

    PROTECTS AGAINST VARNISH BULIDUP AND SLUGE FORMATION DURING STOP AND GO OPERATIONS.

    EXTENDS ENGINE LIFE BY CONTROLLING WEAR

    EUROSPORTS SAE 5W50 MAINTAINS THE OPTIMAL VISCOSITY AT EXTREMLY COLD START UP AND AS WELL AS DURING HIGH TEMPATURE OPERATIONS

    ELF MOTUL MOBIL CASTROL ALL HAVE VERY CLOSE ELEMENTS, IF THERE IS ANY PERFORMANCE SHOPS IN MY AREA I WOULD LOVE FOR ALL OILS TO BE TESTED SIDE BY SIDE.. FINAL THOUGHT IT IS ALSO IMPORTANT TO HAVE SERVICE DONE REGULARLY ON YOUR CARS.
    AND LET THE NUMBERS DO THE TALKING..
    JOHN GLENDALE CALIFORNIA
     
  14. aidanparte

    aidanparte Formula 3

    Jul 18, 2004
    1,222
    Mark

    I see from your signature that you are a fan of Blue Velvet. Top film!

    Aidan
     
  15. bergxu

    bergxu Formula 3

    Aug 16, 2005
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    OnTheSerpentMound
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    Aaron
    Dirk;

    either use OE stuff from Dennis McCann or go with polyurethane from Energy Suspension. I think for a while ES didn't offer poly bushes for the 400s but I believe they've since added them to their catalog.

    cheers;
    Aaron
     
  16. markcF355

    markcF355 F1 Rookie
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    Aidan, great movie.
    As for oil, I'm going to use Red Line 15W50.

    Here is the Red Line data against the AGIP numbers provided by 2LEMANS.

    AGIP EUROSPORT SPECS RED LINE 15W50

    ISO GRADE SAE 5-50 15W50

    VISCOSITY @ 40.C 127.2 138

    VISCOSITY @ 100.C 19.0 19.6

    VISCOSITY INDEX MIN 169 162

    POUR POINT .F -45 -49

    FLASH POINT .F 465 486

    GRAVITY API 34.8

    ALSO HAS
    RATING
    SL SM/SL/SG
    API CF
    CF
    ACEA
    A2/96
    JASO
     
  17. aidanparte

    aidanparte Formula 3

    Jul 18, 2004
    1,222
    Bill Pollard recommends Castrol GTX 20/W50 for my 1980 400i.

    Aidan
     
  18. Ashman

    Ashman Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Sep 5, 2002
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    And I have been using Mobil 1 15W-50 with no problems at all.

    John
     
  19. F1 MONZA

    F1 MONZA Formula Junior

    Sep 6, 2004
    483
    California
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    FOR THOSE THAT USE MOBIL 1

    HERE ARE THE SPECS FOR MOBIL 1 15-50

    40.C 138

    100.C 18.0

    VISCOSITY INDEX 145

    POUR POINT -42

    FLAH PONT 228

    DENSITY .87

    I WILL TRY TO GET MORE INFORMATION ON OTHER OILS. I MAY RETURN MY AGIP OIL BACK TO AGIP..
     
  20. F1 MONZA

    F1 MONZA Formula Junior

    Sep 6, 2004
    483
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    I GUESS MOBIL 1 IS NOT BETTER THEN REDLINE NOR AGIP FOR THAT MATTER.
     
  21. markcF355

    markcF355 F1 Rookie
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    #21 markcF355, May 21, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I agree, by the numbers they all look about the same. I got the following from the Amsoil web site:

    "The test results below were obtained by an independent lab. The 4-ball wear test is a standard ASTM test for determining a lubricants ability to prevent wear. The test is torturous to accelerate wear and produce wear scars between moving ball bearings under load, so a determination of long term wear prevention can be assessed. AMSOIL produces the smallest wear scars and provides wear protection SUPERIOR to all other oils, whether conventional or synthetic! It actually SLOWS DOWN the wear and aging in your engine and will make it last much longer than normal, not to mention significantly better performance and fuel economy."
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  22. markcF355

    markcF355 F1 Rookie
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    And also an updated test showing Red Lines newer formula:

    Four-Ball Wear Test (ASTM D4172)
    60 kg pressure @ 150°C, 1800 RPM, 1 hour

    As Tested February, 2002
    Oil Tested
    Wear Scar

    AMSOIL Series 2000 20W-50 (TRO)
    .44 mm

    Redline 20W-50
    .73 mm

    If you believe these tests, the Amsoil product looks really good.
     
  23. blkprlz

    blkprlz Formula 3

    Mar 24, 2007
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    Hey Aidan,
    Bill was one of my sources as well!
    It's good to see the responses on this subject. Ken is 5 up on me on the chemical field(zilch for me in that dept.), but in contacting a couple of other sources(who aren't mech. or eng.), they reflected on underlying doubts they have heard over the years(no scientific basis), & I recall the controversy of switching to synthetics in a vehicle that didn't start it's life w/it.
    I, too, am not a mechanic, but @ $20k-$25k for V-12 rebuilds--I'm sooo reluctant to put mine in that kind of test eviron. Sorry for the lack of add'l input!
    Bruce
     
  24. Fritz Ficke

    Fritz Ficke Formula 3
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    Jan 3, 2006
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    The point of synthethics for me is the way it flows while cold. A lot of the engine damage occurs before the engine gets warm. In cars that have huge oil amounts it takes longer for the oil to warm up and flow well, in those cars; my 911, 16 quarts and the 400I, 19 quarts? I like to run synthetics. Fritz
     
  25. aidanparte

    aidanparte Formula 3

    Jul 18, 2004
    1,222
    I would love to run mine on fully synthetic oil for all the good reasons described above. I can do without a $25k engine rebuild, but am worried about the seals issue. What to do?
     

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