News

Paris 2016 Auctions

Discussion in 'Vintage Ferrari Market' started by Struppi, Feb 3, 2016.

  1. Terra

    Terra Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 16, 2004
    1,918
    335 S #0674 just sold for €28
     
  2. mdsaxon

    mdsaxon Karting

    Sep 18, 2006
    237
    S.W. Florida
    I think it is apparent that prices are coming down. It doesn't matter what car it is. I don't know what the bottom will be...may only be a slight correction, may be more...time will tell.
     
  3. amenasce

    amenasce Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 17, 2001
    27,173
    Paris / Chicago
    Full Name:
    Andrew Menasce
    As i wrote in the other thread, it was strange to watch. Very very slow bidding and at the end they were taking 50k increments. If you just bid 27.800.000 and then it's at 27.850.000, how can you let it go for 50k??? If you can spend 27m, then an extra 50k or even 100k is nothing, especially for something like that.

    How many bidders were there? Seems 2 by phone and 2 in the room?
     
  4. dflett

    dflett Formula 3

    Jun 24, 2005
    1,599
    NY
    Full Name:
    David
    I'm watching on the web and it seems like total chaos to me. Several times the head guy has told the guy walking around to just stop and be quiet. The main auctioneer does not seem to have any idea what is going. Even with the 335S, the bidder on the floor thought he had the highest bid when in fact it was the bidder on the phone. Only late on did the the auctioneer realize and say no, no it is against you sir and he was the eventual winner. The bidder at the front thought he had the DB4 and then lost it when the bidding was re-opened.
     
  5. Daytonafan

    Daytonafan F1 Rookie

    Oct 18, 2003
    2,665
    Surrey, England
    Full Name:
    Matthew
    €32.075m or $35,732m all in Arcturial are claiming it is the most expensive car ever sold at auction although that clearly playing liberally with the exchange rates prevailing at the time of the GTO and Fangio Mercedes sales.
     
  6. dflett

    dflett Formula 3

    Jun 24, 2005
    1,599
    NY
    Full Name:
    David
    Seemed strange to me. I just said to my wife if you turn up to bid on a car with a reserve of 33m, do you stop at 28m and say no to another $50k?

    Definitely one on the phone and one in the room (right,back) but the auctioneer seemed to be asking for bids from someone on the left but I didn't see him take any.
     
  7. ciscoauto

    ciscoauto Karting

    Jan 1, 2016
    57
    Germany, Bavaria
    Full Name:
    Francois
    #57 ciscoauto, Feb 5, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2016
    Agreed on the chaotic part of the auction itself, as a French man it was already not that easy to follow but it must be totally confusing for foreigners, I do not understand why they don't have a translator to say clearly what is going on. (I don't know how it could work actually).

    That said I won't be that hard on the auction house because the job done on the catalogue was pretty nice and People who are buying this 0674 know what they are doing. I doubt the result would have changed much.

    For the global market.
    The highest lot (let's say 500 000 and more) stop increasing or may go down a bit and that's a safe market reaction imho. But in other range (50 000/300 000 for example) it's not that clear.

    Prices hammered are without fees and VAT, Need to see the final results to compare.

    Just my 2 cents
     
  8. Struppi

    Struppi Rookie

    Apr 1, 2010
    20
    Germany
    Does anybody know how the Alfa 6C lot 178 at Artcurial did?
     
  9. merstheman

    merstheman F1 Rookie

    Apr 13, 2007
    3,555
    São Paulo, Brazil
    Full Name:
    Mario
    I don't know, I think the auction was a right mess. There's something to be said about the ambiance surrounding an Auction, and while Retromobile is an amazing event, a car like the 335 S needs to be sold at an event where there are racing cars driving around a track, or near a concours. We all know why it was sold by Artcurial, and at Retromobile. It's not the sellers' choice, more of a requirement. I think this car would have sold for more at Pebble, by an auction house like RM. I would also not doubt seeing it back on the market in the next 3 - 5 years.
     
  10. Enigma Racing

    Enigma Racing Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 1, 2008
    1,111
    London
    Full Name:
    Kim
    At this end of the market it doesn't rely matter which auction sells it. There are only a handful of buyers happy to spend that sort of money and they are unlikely to be put off by an overnight stay at the George V.

    Another one for the Wexner collection ?
     
  11. merstheman

    merstheman F1 Rookie

    Apr 13, 2007
    3,555
    São Paulo, Brazil
    Full Name:
    Mario
    That point is true. But put 2 or 3 against each other, with the right man at the helm of the hammer, and they wouldn't be coaxing 50k bids out of the few bidders. That's what I think, anyway.
     
  12. energy88

    energy88 F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jan 21, 2012
    11,312
    Fredericksburg, VA & Sarasota, FL
    Full Name:
    John
  13. Timmmmmmmmmmy

    Timmmmmmmmmmy Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 5, 2010
    2,088
    NZ
    Full Name:
    Timothy Russell
    #63 Timmmmmmmmmmy, Feb 5, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2016
    Anyone that wanted to buy would have been bidding by phone or via an agent such as Simon Kidston so they all had ample opportunity and I don't know that anyone could have gotten much more for it. FWIW how many buyers for Ferrari are there at this level that can afford 32 million Euro, subtract the number that are only interested in the trophy cars such as GTO and Testa Rossa and see how many real purchasers were left........

    IMHO I would say it was a good price although a million or two more would have been okay as well....

    Also does anyone know what 250GT #4065GT went for
     
  14. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    13,590
    The SWB failed to sell.
    Simon K was NOT bidding at all. He was on the phone with a potential client but did not bid.

    Marcel Massini
     
  15. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    13,590
    No, it did NOT go to Wexner. His man didn't even bid.
    I was standing right next to him.

    Marcel Massini
     
  16. 300GW/RO

    300GW/RO Formula Junior

    Nov 7, 2010
    903
    east end LI
    Full Name:
    Jack

    What is the take-away lesson/vibe/state of market from this auction in your estimation?
    Thank you,

    Jack
    NY USA
     
  17. joehayes

    joehayes Rookie

    Sep 9, 2010
    41
    Can anyone help me-what did the 959 and the Alfa SZ (long tail) get bid to/sold at Artcurial? I had the two SZ's for sale at Bonham's and there were NO bids on the cars and we had reasonable reserves. Strange market-I felt Paris was the best place for the Alfas. Thanks
     
  18. SGTS

    SGTS Rookie

    Sep 27, 2013
    49
    SZ sold for 500 EUR hammer, est 580-720
     
  19. nis1973

    nis1973 Formula Junior

    Jan 19, 2013
    397
    NYC/CT
    Stunning cars, especially the SZ2! Do you mean literally no bids? I should have gone to Paris...
     
  20. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    13,590
    ZERO vibe.
    Party is over.
    As said before: market correction of at least 20 percent, within the last two weeks.

    Marcel Massini
     
  21. 166&456

    166&456 Formula 3

    Jul 13, 2010
    1,720
    Amsterdam
    A bit like the stock market!
     
  22. msn

    msn Formula Junior

    Jan 22, 2011
    250
    #72 msn, Feb 6, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2016
    ERA, Totally agree that Retromobile is probably the finest event of it's kind in the world and you get to see such a fantastic selections of cars. The star dealers did have a super section of cars and most were of Grade A, but these were only a small selection of the dealers represented. There were a lot of poor cars being offered and going to these events you can get a true indication of quality and quantity. I understand the 250 SWB was a swiss car so what ever price it was going to achieve would have had between 20 and 30 in tax and duty to the price the same for the F40.
    I still stand by my comments that the Best cars and these are few and far at the moment attract substantial money. everything else is priced accordingly and rightly so.
    In the last 2 weeks we have seen near enough world records on various Ferraris because they are grade A quality, low miles provence perfect condition
    Buyers are educated, want the best and this evident.
     
  23. PAUL BABER

    PAUL BABER Formula 3

    Nov 1, 2006
    1,058
    London. UK.
    Full Name:
    Paul Baber
    French car....French auction. National confidence I think.
     
  24. ERA

    ERA Rookie

    Dec 21, 2015
    14
    #74 ERA, Feb 6, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2016
    Artcurial auctions are always a mess. Hard to follow for non French speaking people as much it is hard for French people to understand Mecum auctioneers :)

    335S has been secretly offered for sale for a while to some brokers and auction houses.
    Car bought in the room by Max Girardo from RM for a US client.

    Some brokers say they had better offer for the car only it had been through a discreet transaction.
     
  25. amenasce

    amenasce Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 17, 2001
    27,173
    Paris / Chicago
    Full Name:
    Andrew Menasce
    Kind of strange that the car is bought through a competitor.

    Still surprised by lack of enthusiasm for such a car. Music has stopped..
     

Share This Page