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Oval Dino Chassis Tubing Supplier?

Discussion in '206/246' started by Paddy_SP, Sep 26, 2016.

  1. Paddy_SP

    Paddy_SP Rookie

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    As per the thread title, I'd be most grateful for any pointers towards someone who could supply me with some oval chassis tubing. My car is a '72 246GT, and the tubes I'm looking for are the three that run along the base of the chassis under the seats. Any help would be most appreciated!
     
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  3. dm_n_stuff

    dm_n_stuff Global Moderator
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    Paddy,

    When my bodyshop had to replace them on another Dino, they fabricated them in house. I don't recall the exact process, but would seem to me if they could do it, any good shop could do it.

    I might still have contact info for the owner of that shop. He's since sold his operation, but I might have email or cell phone if you want them. Shoot me a PM if interested and I'll see what I can dig up.

    DM
     
  4. Paddy_SP

    Paddy_SP Rookie

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    Many thanks, DM - I could do it myself, but would rather that I found the 'right stuff', if it's available!
     
  5. 89forever

    89forever Rookie

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  6. Paddy_SP

    Paddy_SP Rookie

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  8. patknapp14

    patknapp14 Karting
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    You might check in with Superformance in the UK. They list two different size oval chassis tube options under Dino Body Fittings on their website!
     
  9. TTR

    TTR F1 Rookie
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    Superformance tubing, at least in their product pictures, appear to be just re-formed seamed round tubing.
    If I'm not mistaken, most if not all OEM oval chassis tubes featured in this era vintage Ferrari are/were "seamless" DOM CrMo and which just "any shop" is likely not able to reproduce, as suggested earlier..
    And since those tubes are the "back bone" of the car and to which rest of the structure, including suspension and coachwork support, etc is based and built upon, replacing them with anything other could be considered same as destroying the chassis or at least rendering it way below standards expected in a Ferrari.
     
  10. patknapp14

    patknapp14 Karting
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    Timo,

    That is good information to know! You learn something new everyday! I just saw it on their page as I was generating a parts order for a car here, and figured I would pass it along. Thank you for clarifying that!

    Pat Knapp
     
  11. Paddy_SP

    Paddy_SP Rookie

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    Many thanks for the pointer - I used to be friends with Mile Elliott when he owned Superformance, but I've not had any dealings with the new owners. As Timo said though, I'd much rather use the 'proper' stuff!
     
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  13. Paddy_SP

    Paddy_SP Rookie

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    I've been giving this matter some thought, and suspect that the 246 was constructed from a rather lesser grade. Firstly, the whole car was built as cheaply as possible, and secondly, the shockingly bad welds look like industrial MIG to me, certainly not anything you'd expect to find on something fabricated from chrome-moly.

    So - does anyone here actually know what the 246 chassis was made from?
     
  14. dgt

    dgt Formula 3
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    Don't use the superformance centre tube. It's just a squashed round tube which is very approximately the shape. I bought it and never used it, various reasons why it wasn't going to work.
    Recommend you fabricate with CrMo or see/measure before you buy.
    There are at least a few threads in 206/246 section if you search.
     
  15. TTR

    TTR F1 Rookie
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    Other than cursory inspections/viewing, I don't have personal experience with Dino chassis repairs, but do have some on Daytonas and can say that other than DOM (seamless) CrMo oval chassis tubes, all other tubing featured in their construction, including couple of non-standard sizes (60x15x1.75 & 45x22x1.5, which I've had both made for me by a local manufacturer) used in some of the lower "out-riggers", appear to be just standard "structural" (seamed) tubing and I suspect Dino chassis being same.

    As for the OEM type "bad welds", one has to keep in mind that MIG welding, which was used in the chassis construction at the time of Daytona/Dino production was relatively "new" technology and can be somewhat difficult to replicate today by "seasoned" welder.
    I've had some non-automotive, but highly experienced professional welders voicing their concerns when looking at OEM welds on a completely stripped-down Daytona chassis in my shop and thinking they are looking at some kind of amateur built kit car (!?!).

    Closest appearance to OEM welds I've been able achive is by setting the amperage too low with too much feed and occasionally just keeping both eyes shot while attempting to weld with my left hand (I'm right handed).

    All the "early" (late '40s to early '60s) chassis structures I've seen appear to have been (originally) oxy-acetylene ("gas") welded, but I also suspect that most of the vintage chassis repairs perfomed (professionally) today are done with TIG welding.
     
  16. Paddy_SP

    Paddy_SP Rookie

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    I'm glad to hear that I'm not alone with respect to my thoughts on the quality of the welding!
     
  17. pshoejberg

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    #14 pshoejberg, Sep 28, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2016
    I have been on the lookout for correctly sized and shaped oval tubes for the Dino for a long while and have NEVER seen any correct sized replacement tubes to this date (Or proof for same). Though the majority of the welding on our chassis looks like s**t, most of the critical welding’s are performed in an acceptable quality with good penetration and fit. I admit that they look terrible and that they are difficult to replicate with modern welding equipment and a steady hand...-:)

    Regards Peter
     
  18. UroTrash

    UroTrash Three Time F1 World Champ
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    My heart skipped a beat.
     
  19. Paddy_SP

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    I agree that the welds are functional - they just look bad! The company linked to above (Proformance) say they have the right jigs to produce 55 mm x 93 mm oval tube. All I have to do is specify the material type and wall thickness, so any help in this direction would be most appreciated! :)
     
  20. Paddy_SP

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    Further to the above, Proformance have just said that they can do three 1.2 metre lengths of CDS for about £500. You really don't want to know the price of the same in chrome-moly! :eek:
     
  21. pshoejberg

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    Good news above. Looking forward to see a picture of the finished product if someone go ahead and make an order. 500£ for 3 x 1.2m pipes seems like a fair prices taken into account other spare part prices for Dino's. It could be interesting to check the material quality on the original oval pipes. I doubt very much that it is high grade chrome molybdenum steel, but that is just guessing based on my working experience with the tubes.
     
  22. Paddy_SP

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    Agreed - it certainly rusts like mild steel - I was able to push my finger through the driver's side tube!
     
  23. TTR

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    #20 TTR, Sep 28, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2016
    I agree. Based on my (mostly Daytona) observations, welding performed by chassis builder on the actual chassis/frame construction is clearly better/different than that performed by coach builder for body support structure.
     
  24. TTR

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    #21 TTR, Sep 28, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2016
    Since this Proformance appear to have some experience reproducing these (Ferrari chassis) oval tubes, what does their experience suggest the OEM material composition is/was ?
    I admit I've never had metallurgical analyses performed to confirm it myself, but rather "assumed", which I know one should never resort to. I've just never had a need to replace them on chassis I've worked on.
    If you're having them made or find them elsewhere, regardless of the material, could you please report back with good detailed photos ?
     
  25. SoCal1

    SoCal1 F1 Veteran
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    I agree, the OEM welds were very inconsistent with splatter. Looks like arc welding
     
  26. pshoejberg

    pshoejberg Formula 3
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    Quote:
    "I admit I've never had metallurgical analyses performed to confirm it myself, but rather "assumed", which I know one should never resort to. I've just never had a need to replace them on chassis I've worked on"


    I have welded, grinded and heat corrected those oval tubes and from what I can feel and see they appears and acts as "ordinary" mild steel seam less pipes.

    Regards

    Peter
     
  27. Kevin Rev'n

    Kevin Rev'n F1 World Champ
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  28. Paddy_SP

    Paddy_SP Rookie

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    Will do!
     

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