Opinion of Chris Bangle's design direction with BMW...........

Both of them were designed by Bangle !

 

FYI, the M5 has already been out over a year and the orders have all been filled so the waiting list is gone in most regions...but it you want one with specific options, you will still have to order it and wait a few months...I know I had to wait several months before getting my M5 is April 2006...As to the M6, there is still a long waiting list as far as I know...and, when the M6 convertible comes out I suspect that there will be a very long waiting list...

 

thank you car trader for your posts...but it will fall on deaf ears around here.

 

Ignorant is not an insult...I too am ignorant in numerous areas such as nuclear science, medicine, ect...we are all ignorant in whatever areas we have no knowlege in...to be ignorant is to lack knowlege...it does not mean dumb or stupid...

 

Friend Kizdan, your poll # point is sound.

However, always take into account that the approximately 25% of Americans who are "Bangle-like progressives" think they know far better than the normal "uneducated" majority, and they need to tell us what to think we like.

Bangle himself has said as much in interviews - he thinks he needs to "challenge" his customers so they can gag down his designs as time wears them down.

James

PS, I grieve alongside for your perceived "ignorance", as I have myself been exposed for owning one each of the most "butt-ugly" Corvettes and Porsches ever made. And here I thought that purple C5 IndyPaceCar with the yellow wheels was in bad taste...so, being a Neanderthal from Texas, I just got black on black for all of mine...wonder if parkerfe has put his money where his mouth is, and what color he picked?

 

I agree, kizdan, I think the most damage was done to the 7 and 5 series. When you see the previous 7 in the metal, it has a sturdy and scalpel-like presence. The new one looks fat. The new 3 doesn't look as good as the e46 it replaced, but the smaller proportions and smoother trunk make it work better.

With regard to other designers have done the actual work on the "Bangle cars", I'm certain they were constrained by the design direction set by their boss.

Obviously the M5 is going to sell out -- 500 horsies, the thing is a missile. I'd love to drive one. But it's a graceless car to look at, and the 'eyebrows' over the headlights could use a good waxing...

I think the revamped 5 in 2009 will be welcomed by a lot of us who are taking a break from BMW cars for a bit. Mercedes has pulled ahead of BMW in styling, IMO. CLK, CLS and the new CL are beautiful. E class is conservative, but handsome.

 

...wonder if parkerfe has put his money where his mouth is, and what color he picked?[/QUOTE]

I do in fact own a 2006 BMW e60 M5...it is Interlagos Blue with black fulll leather interior...I have also owned a Porsche 993..but not a targa...yuk...as far as Corvettes are concerned, I have owned two a 1977 L82 and a 1991 L98 convertible...

 

I do in fact own a 2006 EMW e60 M5...it is Interlagos Blue with black fulll leather interior...I have also owned a Porsche 993..but not a targa...yuk...as far as Corvettes are concerned, I have owned two a 1977 L82 and a 1991 L98 convertible...[/QUOTE]

OK, so you are not exactly a hypocrite on the BMW front (I assume that EMW is the Bangle way to spell Bavarian Motor Works -) and I am glad to see that...

However, you admit to also having owned a C4 Corvette and a Porsche 993(although not the beautiful Targa variant)...are you just possibly a "kettle calling the pot black" on this one?

I will close politely with this thought -

Did either the C4 Corvette or the 993 Targa ever inspire such a thread as this one? (and produce a love/hate ratio of 25/55)?

YF and style debating partner,
James

PS - I may have to sell that 1995 ZR1 if I take the Testarossa; would you like to have another chance to make it up to this beautiful car & own another, this time with the benefit of adequate power?

 

perhaps this kind of debate is what bangle and his team wanted.

 

OK, so you are not exactly a hypocrite on the BMW front (I assume that EMW is the Bangle way to spell Bavarian Motor Works -) and I am glad to see that...

However, you admit to also having owned a C4 Corvette and a Porsche 993(although not the beautiful Targa variant)...are you just possibly a "kettle calling the pot black" on this one?

I will close politely with this thought -

Did either the C4 Corvette or the 993 Targa ever inspire such a thread as this one? (and produce a love/hate ratio of 25/55)?

YF and style debating partner,
James

PS - I may have to sell that 1995 ZR1 if I take the Testarossa; would you like to have another chance to make it up to this beautiful car & own another, this time with the benefit of adequate power?[/QUOTE]

Great art always causes controversy...whether it be music of paintings...in traditional art the artist is often dead for decades before his/her art is even recognized as great...I predict Bangle's contribution to automotive design will live long after he has retired or passed away...only time will tell...

 

This seems to be a valid point on artistic legacy - it is tricky stuff. I guess the same thing happened with the Jackson Pollock, Andy Warhol, and Frank Zappa output of works...not my kind of thing, but I can sort of see the attraction to later generations.

James - but I am sticking with Kurt Goerdel, M.C.Escher, and Johann Sebastian Bach for now.

 

I predict that you are correct, just as the Pontiac Aztec's contribution to automotive design will live on long after its demise.

By the way, it isn't too late to sign the Stop Chris Bangle petition on line (or read the comments of those who have already signed it):

http://www.petitiononline.com/STOPCB/

 

http://www.aztekrally.org/

Could be.

 

Interesting Read: http://www.fastcompany.com/online/62/bmw.html

 

No problems. Has it fallen on deaf ears ? or has the anti-bangle petition fallen on deaf ears ? Last time I checked, Bangle is still at BMW and the actual designer of the E61 6 series and E65 7 series, Adrian Van Hooydonk, has been made chief designer. That reflects what BMW thinks of the risk of an anti Bangle backlash from its customers (who are the only people BMW really need to please): no risk at all. The anti-bangle petition was and remains a symbol of a hopeless waste of time.

In any case, the anti-bangle camp are crowing over the poll results as refelecting their views as majority views but is a poll result under an off-topic in a non BMW car chat site proof of the majority view of BMW car buyers ?

 

Thanks !

 

Dear Bullfighter,

Its car design - not brick laying - where the brick direction can be set by the boss.

Your M5 comment - only proves that as horrid as the design may appear to you, its not actually affecting sales.

You may wish to note that CLS has drawn equal fire for design - its been called the upside down ripe banana and is hardly conservative- you may also like to note that the S class (merc's most important car) now sports a prominent "Bangle butt" and is the better for it (looks wise).

 

Dear Auraraptor

What do you think of the mercedes design compared to BMW design ? Any similarities ?
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Actually bullfighter is right

Starts with top (options submitted to the bosses) they decide on direction then tell the designers to continue down THIS path...

 

What Bullfighter said was that the designers designed according to criteria set by the design boss - ie the designers themselves did not come up with the designs.

What your saying is that "...options (are) submitted to the bosses" and they approve - that's correct but is not what Bullfighter said.

Also, if design approval is the basis of responsibility then the anti-bangle peitition should be changed to "stop BMW board of directors" instead.

 

Its odd that despite all this debate, no one actually mentions the car that Bangle actually did design - the Fiat Coupe
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The designers obviously did more than sculpt Bangle's own drawings into clay, but there is a family resemblance between the cars that was not the spontaneous idea of a bunch of lone ranger designers. They were given parameters, such as the high 'beltline' and Bangle butt, and asked to interpret those. No two people would come up with the "eyelash" headlight design working independently.

FWIW, I didn't list the M-B S-Class because it's not their best effort. It is better, IMO, than the BMW 7 especially in profile, but the tacked-on trunk lid is clearly derivative and the clunkiest part of the car.

Sorry, I just see the new BMWs (except for the 3, which escaped nicely) as overweight and overstyled. Again, I wouldn't mind driving an M5 because it's a hell of a car. But aesthetically I think BMW is trading on its name, and selling out to frivolous design. The X3 with any other badge would be languishing on dealer lots.

I saw spy photos of the 2009 5 series, though, and it looks like things will be radically revised, much for the better, IMO.

 

Good to share your views and no one can be faulted or attacked for an honestly held opinion.

Not sure if high 'beltline' (you mean waist) and a Bangle butt constitute design director directions. Believe it would be more like "Adrien, these are the planned car size, etc. Give me something radical based on these dimensions and let's see" and then the designer does some sketches and refines them with Bangle and input from others.

Bangle detractors (as do suporters) have to realise that many do not share their views. But personally, I'd have to say that the older BMW designs were slightly boring and many do not realise that many of the designs they like were actually done under Bangle's watch.

BMW would have died if they stayed with the same designs. Just see Jaguar.

I'd agree on the MB S class looking better than the current 7 series - but disagree that its one of MB's weaker efforts - Try looking at it again some time now and see if your impressions change.

 

That is a great looking car too...I wish we could still get Fiats, Alfas and Lancias here in the USA...

 

^ THE MAN ^