Ole Big Mouth is Back!

Ha ah, I do not follow like sheep Jim, I see you like to find and post the crap, then sit back and watch the fireworks.

Well sir, there is a fine line between fishing and standing on the shore looking like an idiot!!, bear that in mind. not that you will care, I'm sure it will go straight over your head..

Oh BTW I still havn't seen your car or has Bobbyjoe got it now ....LMAO

 

The definition of normal is what the majority would do, say or think. The flaw in this thought process is, if the majority decided that jumping off of a cliff to resolve their woes was the answer to your problems, then that becomes normal.

 

I haven't had a chance to clean it up the way I like to ... been out on the karts.

... did swap the black calipers for red ... it looks ok. I'll probably leave it home tomorrow.

G

 

I agree with much of that. However the only 'quote' I remember seeing, and that was given without any useful context so I treat it with caution, was LH allegedly saying he was 'as good as Senna'. He may or may not have said that but, as far as I know, he has never claimed to be 'better than' any of the illustrious past greats, which I accept might be considered to be crossing the line even by those who believe he is as good a driver as some of the greats.

 

No, you're right. It says "as good as", as did I. Do we even have this entire interview anywhere? I would really like to see the entire exchange--but it's still tacky-sounding. If I were talking to him, I would have just followed up with "How so?" It's great if you feel in your heart you're as good as one of the all-time greats. But if you're going to verbalize those feelings, people are going to question it and ask what your basis is for making such a statement. If a second-year golfer says "I'm as good as Jack Nicklaus", wouldn't you ask him "Based on what criteria?"

 

FIA rankings
Kimi 1st
Hami 2nd
Alonso 3rd

as for this Singapore he didn't put a wheel wrong and Renaults strategy.s well played. nothing mor nothing less.

Again how is PkJr fairing against Alonso his rookie year? Take an objective look at HK AND PKJr and you can only conclude Hamilton is a brilliant F1 pilot. off topic rant over.

with the question at hand after seeing what the media has done with Palin, I won't believe anything until I hear it from the horses mouth.

 

I don't think there is a straightforward answer to that particular question, but first we need to consider the quote which appeared to be to the effect that he was as 'good as Senna was'. As good as Senna was at the end of his career or as good as Senna was at the end of his second year in F1? We don't know, which is why it is dangerous to try to make a case for anything based on quotes that have no context. The golf analogy is not a close one; unlike golf, where everyone is on a level playing field, in F1 the cars are all different so there can never be a clear mathematical or statistical answer to such a question, unless perhaps the drivers are in the same team at the same time. If that was a genuine quote from LH I'd guess it was partly a gut feeling based on what he knows about Senna and his record (and Senna was a hero of his) and partly how he believes he compares with the top drivers of today against whom he is currently competing.

Incidentally, I have never subscribed to the notion put forward by several people on here that there is no comparison because Senna was a WDC and LH is not and no one should even think about making a comparison until LH is also a (multiple) champion. As I have said before there is a big difference between ability and achievement and there isn't necessarily a direct relationship between the two. If LH wins the WDC this year will he suddenly be a better driver than he is now? Is Schumacher twice the driver Senna was because of the number of championships each of them won? Are all of those drivers who never became champion lesser drivers than everyone who did? In all cases clearly not, but the argument that a driver who hasn't won a championship cannot be compared with one who has seems to imply otherwise.

 

Sweet !

 

The issue is not that Lewis is suddenly better if he wins the WDC; the issue is his superiority over others. Almost everyone will agree that the McL is one of the 3 or 4 best cars on the grid for the last two years, so at some point, we do have to evaluate the drivers. They have to stay off the kerbs and out of the kitty litter. Take LH and put him in the Ferrari and he is still near the top of the standings, probably. Take Alonzo and put him in the McL or Ferrari and he is near the top. Why? Because they are good drivers. Take Kaz Nak and put him in the Ferrari and I bet he is no higher than 5th. So, it is still a driver's sport.

As such, we can't say that LH is the best if he never beats all the other drivers. I don't think you would seriously call LH one of the best of all time if, let's say, he never wins a championship. Let's say he finishes second 5 years in a row--he can't be considered among those who won 2 or more WDCs.

Running your tires off your car--as LH did last year at the end--was a mistake. THE DRIVER ULTIMATELY MAKES THE CALL WHETHER TO CONTINUE OR NOT. And LH could have TOLD Ron to let him pit. He took a chance staying out and he lost. Most likely, that was a learning experience for him and he will not make that mistake down the stretch this year.

And, though I do not like Lewis, I respect his ability, but he CANNOT be considered among the best yet. There is not enough substance there, yet.

 

I disagree. Stirling Moss is a case in point. He was never world champion but was, arguably, one of the very best there has been, certainly a lot better than most who have WDC trophies in their cabinets.

 

Disagree...Golf... Each player uses a different set of club designs and balls. All function in a different manner making the playing field far from level. It would be a level playing field if all of the players were required to use the same clubs as well as the same balls. Early in Tiger Woods' career he was acused of having an unfair advantage because of some innovative club designs.

 

So does that mean, other golfers can't buy the same ones?, you just can't pop into a shop and buy a F1 Mclaren or F1 Ferrari.

Cream rises to the top. Enough off topic though.

 

Most, if not all of the guys on tour all have custom made clubs and you can't go into any Pro Shop and buy the same club. Most of the guys on the PGA Tour, their club designs are well guarded secrets.

 

Ok, I know little about golf, spoils a good walk..

 

True, but I've never heard a claim that Tiger Woods, Jack Nicklaus, or anyone else for that matter, only achieved what they did because they had the best clubs. Having played golf (but not of course at that sort of level) I know it's maybe 95% skill, 5% equipment, in F1 the percentages are very different. It's clear that a driver has little chance of winning unless he's in one of the two or three cars that are competitive in any given year.

 

now we're talking about golf?

 

Here's the deal;
Everyone in a top car on today's F1 grid thinks they are as good as Senna, Shumi, Etc. Look at how their Team-mates acted.
Even Barachello thought he was Shumis equal as he fought him for position many times. These guys would and should not be there if they did not think this way.
Problem is we as a public cant take reality; We want a Fairy tale. "Aw shucks, golly gee, I could never be like.... (fill in the blank)".
BS.
Its that the others have been coached or have enough experience to play dumb. Hami does not get it: Pretend modesty, its OK. Matter of fact its what the masses crave. Play to the public as the rest do. Because we want a story, not reality.

 

+1000000

Although I frankly get sick and tired of that fake BS.

 

Note your own use of the word "arguably," which is then further qualified by "on of" the best.

The most often quote of Moss is that "he is the greatest driver never to have won a world championship." Look up any bio on him and it will say that. This moniker has followed him all his life. Therefore, the failure to win a championship becomes an anchor around his neck. One never sees his name without the qualification.

If you start a list of the greatest drivers ever, you ALWAYS start with world champs. Schuey, Ayrton, Fangio, Jackie Stewart (?), and others. A dozen drivers later you get to Moss, and it is always noted that he did not win.

So, we must then ask how large your "list" is. If it is more than a dozen drivers, then Moss is in. If it is 5, he is out. Without winning the WDC, LH is out.

 

The point I was making is that the winning of a world championship is not a requirement to be considered 'one of the best'. You believe Moss is in the top dozen but not the top five, that's subjective (which is why I used the word 'arguably'), but even in the top dozen he is well ahead of very many who were/are champions, so you have confirmed that my point is correct.

You suggest that if LH does not win the championship he is out, i.e. not one of the best, is he in if he does win it?

 

Hamilton as good as Ayrton Senna? Not even is Hamilton's WILDEST wet dreams. I will tell you how good Aryton Senna was. Michael Schumacher never won a qualifying pole while Aryton Senna was alive. That is how good Ayrton Senna was.

Hamilton as good as Ayrton Senna? You tell me.

 

FORE

 

Don't like the golf analogy? Then try this one: I can play Purple Haze note for note on the guitar. I have therefore dubbed myself as good as Jimi Hendrix and will begin telling people so...Yeah, pretty ridiculous. You even make the point I was getting at in your argument when you question that "...no one should even think about making a comparison..." And therein lies the point--it's for others to decide, not the individual. And greatness is determined by a career, not a season and a half. Kimi won the championship last season, did that make him a great? Hardly. Look, if Hamilton begins closing the deal and winning championships, that will be what determines his path to greatness. It will show that as a driver his is continuing to grow and improve, a sign of greatness.

 

The title of the thread should be ; Beating a dead horse. Volume 24,522

If, no when, LH bags his WDC(s) then and only then does he have a right to compare himself to the greats ?
Then will come the question; has he "become" a great driver or did he have it to begin with and circumstances allowed him the championship. If he already had the right stuff then why not accept it now ? He is the very exact same person.

His talent is painfully obvious to see if you unbiassedly view his races so far. I rank him as one of the best. Alonso too but his career has stalled.