Old vs New Ferrari Build Quality

What I can say, is that Ferrari is not supposed to be a car with creature comforts, they sold out PERIOD, they used to be DRIVING MACHINES, now they are marketed to every tom dick and harry, most have no business driving a Ferrari to begin with.With Ferrari, its all about the money. If I was running the company, I would hand pick the people that I allowed to own a Ferrari. There is no exclusivity with the mark, where I live, I see Ferraris almost as much as I see Toyotas , it sure seems that way, and when I look at who is behind the wheel, i get even more disgusted. lol With that being said, what an awful shame, that the only time you see the classic, insanely priced Ferraris from the 50s , 60s, 70s. 80s etc, , you have to go to Monterey , once a year at a car show, because God forbid, any of the owners dare take their multi million dollar prancing horses, on a drive, pathetic

Thank you,

 

I guess that’s what Pagani, Koenigsegg and Bugatti are for. But below hypercar level, I can’t see how a business model for making cars only for a select few hand picked customers would work, you couldn’t do it now for a 812 level of car, and Bugatti is bankrolled by VAG.

 

Could any of the techs who are kindly contributing to this very interesting discussion list the two or three Ferraris that in their mind are the best built, and two or three that are the worst built?

Techs and others working in and around workshops are the only people with a large enough sample size over time to make a judgement.

 

Your right, I was over reaching with the hand picked statement, with that being said, if Ferraris did not come with all of the high tech gadgetry, and the add ons that one would see with an SUV per say, they would weed out a lot of would be buyers, except the people who appreciate Ferrari, from a pure driving standpoint. When I am out riding and driving in the canyons, I almost never see exotics being put through theyre paces , I only see them on city streets and freeways. I would venture a guess that there are less than 1 % of owners who have ever driven their F Cars , on roads that they were actually made for. Its that simple.

 

Darius you might have unwittingly answered the original op, Mechanics are now addressed as technicians.

 

great article, i like it

 

I prefer the title of mechanic.

Tell someone you're a mechanic, they assume you work on engines. Tell them you're a technician, and they wonder whether you work on refrigerators, computers, HVAC, or some other random thing.

Just because a mechanic working on modern cars needs to be able to troubleshoot CAN bus or a MOST network doesn't mean we needed a new job title.

 

Ugh. The same "I drive an antique Ferrari and I'm better than everyone because my Ferrari doesn't even have electronic fuel injection or power steering".
The problem with "antique" cars (I hesitate to write old because my 360 at 20 years old is well.. old) is they look old and well ARE old. Let me explain: there was a 328 that came to C+C driven by an attorney. It (of course) didn't start. Because the 328 is soo "reliable". It was in fact the ONLY Ferrari I've ever encountered at C+C that didn't start. The top BTW.. leaked and you could smell in addition to the oil and gas in the cabin leather (I'm sorry "patina") a hint of must. You don't have that in ANY of the non-antique Ferrari's I've ever encountered. BTW because my other car was an antique (79' 928) with a similar antique CIS fuel injection system, I gently depressed the CIS plate and the car started. Nobody else, including the owner, knew this trick, because Modern fuel injection systems actually work properly. Even in a heat soak condition. I did find lacking in the article the part where the mom in the Toyota Minivan passes the slow 328 while the kids in the back look down quizzically while sipping on their juice drinks wondering..

 

Agree 100%

 

Oh yes I understand that is also a debate and a vivid one. I was using the terminology Ferrari currently uses. To avoid controversy, I should perhaps have said “people who are paid to fix Ferraris professionally”.

 

I dont think "people feeling better than" for driving an older Ferrari has anything to do with it. Older Ferraris are certainly not "antique" by any stretch of the imagination. Modern Ferraris have more problems,,its that simple . With respect to the 355, Ferrari f ed up that car a lot !!! (not modern but wanted to mention that because Ferrari has not come along as much as they should have after that piece of crap was introduced ) Modern Ferraris should have better reliability than a Toyota Camry, for what they cost, but they dont. Ferrari sold out, so they could sell their cars to soccer moms, and the rest of the lot that you see driving them. On another note, why in Gods name did Ferrari build an AWD station wagon ? Maybe its the same reason why they cant seem to build an interior that does not come unglued, or an F1 transmission that doesnt break all the time. I have never heard about Porsches having electronic gearboxes that are always failing.

 

Porsche IMS bearings, though....

 

What an arrogant post. My point is.. you think you're ABOVE a soccer mom driving a Ferrari? Or "The rest of the lot"? That's an unbelievably arrogant assertion to presume you're better than they are. Isn't it?

So what "credential" do you have to even make this statement.. despite driving a 100,000 mile+ 328? Which BTW from what I've read above sounds like it has had alot replaced "despite not being needed". I replaced the suspension, the engine, the alternator, the battery, the fuel pump, etc. etc. Even when not needed. Which BTW are major failure points on cars of those era.

Why should a more expensive car be more reliable? BMW isn't more reliable than a toyota? Porsche isn't either. And is a Toyota even that reliable? Maybe it's HOW a car is driven. I drive my 60,000+ mile 360 very sedately and I don't have any issues. So maybe my 360 is more reliable than a toyota?

 

The 355 also isn’t a piece of crap. Some of its issues were because it was operating on the ragged edge of what was possible in a road car at the time. I assume you’ve never had one. I have one, as well as, several others and can tell you that the car is beautiful, reliable, and unlike any other car out there. And it’s a F1 which works just fine.

I also have a 328 GTB and it’s reliable too.

 

Nailed it !

 

The 355 becomes a fantastic car( I have had the chance to drive one, fantastic mechanical grip, despite the power assisted steering) BUT NOT RIGHT OUT OF THE FACTORY . after you put in about $ 30,000 to fix all the inherent problems from the factory, including a rotten F1 gearbox if so equipped.I have not replaced my motor, but I replaced 99 % elected surgery so to speak. Not here to argue, next time Im at my mechanics shop, I will continue to ask about the problems with the cars he is working on. And yes, where I live, there are lots of people owning Ferraris that have no business behind the wheel. They either drive them around like grandmas, or they wrap them around telephone poles. When it comes to Porsche , I do know about the bearing problem, but they did get it fixed. Soccer moms belong in mini vans !! lol Keep in mind, I have been riding motorcycles for 30 years, and I see all of "THE LOT" as well as other drivers killing riders every day. I love Ferrari, with that being said, they are not the same company that they used to be . Soccer moms and the lot , driving 600 HP exotics is not my idea of Ferrari. Back to the main point. The 3x8 series of cars are the absolute best cars Ferrari has ever produced. F40 / F50 / 288 GTO / Testarossa included. I would take an F 40 over anything the factory has come out with since. My 328 has been as reliable as the sun rising, I had the money to get it to where I will enjoy it for another 100,000 miles. I dont think the modern Ferraris can even come close to that benchmark. That is what the answer ,and the proof is , with regard to the original post, arrogance included.

Thank you.

 

A 328 engine has nearly the specific output as a new Camry.....and they're both reliable... Coincidence? Hmmmm

 

By the way, the " I AM BETTER THAN YOU OR MY CAR IS BETTER THAN YOURS BECAUSE ITS MORE RELIABLE " has nothing to do with reliability , so next time you try and scold somebody, take note of the context. I do not subscribe to that train of thought. It has nothing to do with thinking I am better than anybody,you said that, thats your brains thinking, you took a statement out of context and used it in your reply Sir. I will say it again, a Ferraris reliability does not make it better or worse than any other Ferrari or its owner, its just a fact. I posted my opinion of 21 years of owner ship and asking a lot of questions at whatever shop I happen to be in at that moment. If you dont like what you read here, just toss it in the trash, its a spiritual axiom , that when you criticize something in someone else directly, you are really disliking something in your own self / character .My opinion is just my opinion , and its based on what I experience, otherwise I would have no reason to post it.

Thank you

 

I have been subscribing to the fact that a 328 is not considered a modern Ferrari. I was thinking all models after the F430,

 

Well I don’t know what’s considered modern or not but suspect it’s a matter of perspective to a degree.

My point was just that, many times when you take a pile of parts on simmer and bring them to a boil that can result in a bit more finicky machine.

I have no problem taking the bad with the good as the benefits outweigh the cost, IMO.

 

During my tenure of ten years working on all types of Ferraris from 1950s-2015, you could see the evolution of quality improve.

Most of the Enzo era (ending with the 365 GTC), you saw large valve springs, crude castings, etc. The Fiat era (when mid engines took over and mass production), you saw some improvements with castings and other mechanical components. Although the 80s were terrible in terms of electronics/fuel injection for almost all brands.

It was only in 2005 models and above where the quality represented an entirely new company. The castings between a 360 and 430 engine components are drastically different. The 430 engine components are more robust and refined compared to the 360 components. (camshaft caps for example). This is also when timing chains were introduced.

 

Thanks Luca. It took him ten years to turn the company around.

 

When I think about this reliability topic, my natural thought, the more high tech electronic wizardry, and that pertains to the on board and out board systems, the more failures will happen, so the 328 being more raw or simple you might say, would be inherently more reliable than the insane high tech Ferraris, or any other exotic for that matter. The newer F cars , even the 458 , have not really been around long enough to really see how good the motors are, longevity wise. I do believe that Ferrari has made these fairly low displacement, high HP motors, using all the latest metal technology . These motors so they say, are so advanced, that a manual gearbox just would not work. Does this mean they are more like the F1 cars of today ? Well, my guess would be absolutely, with that being said, the life of an F1 motor, is fairly short. Does this mean that if you drive a 488 like it was designed for, how long will it last before something grenades ??? I think that is a reasonable question. I have driven my 328 102,000 miles, and as you probably can guess, I drive it like my delusions of grander , being I I have Aryton Senna coaching me in my ear all for the last 21 years lol .

Thank you

 

People want to believe that their 328 is more reliable than a modern car. People want to believe many things and will find a ways to justify their beliefs. Objectively they’re usually wrong. I’d love to see data and not supposition about how reliable modern electronics are compared to older junk. There is none. It’s usually a bunch of old guys that can’t use an iPhone or have their grandkids set up their email that berate modern technology. Just cause a person doesn’t understand it, doesn’t make it unreliable. A modern Toyota will go 200k miles a lot more reliably than an 80’s Toyota will. I have no doubt a Modern ferrari follows this as well.

I will say though, that if I drive my 360 as slow and boring as a 328... it will be just as ”reliable”.