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Old photos of UK Ferrari

Discussion in 'United Kingdom' started by Wheels1, Dec 8, 2013.

  1. Daytonafan

    Daytonafan F1 Rookie

    Oct 18, 2003
    2,666
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    Matthew
    There was a thread on the defunct Drivers Republic site that indicated that the car may now have a power operated roof installed and possibly even a 550 engine. I can't find any other links to corroborate either story now but anyone know any more about this?

    Obviously considering the mysteries around the collection this could be rubbish or possibly even a Daytona style body has been dropped onto a 550 chassis and the two cars mixed up?
     
  2. Robert W

    Robert W Formula 3

    Mar 13, 2005
    1,313
    Oxford, UK
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    Robert Westall
    #77 Robert W, Jan 19, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Ok, in trying to get a photo of the 7 RHD Daytona Spyders, the photos seem to be causing confusion, so let me add photos with number plates to help:

    1. 14371 RM460 black
    2. 14373 Mr.Shannon has a photo I hope!
    3. 15841 here registered X5
    4. 15909 ULT1
    5. 15917 1JMA [AMOC St.John Horsfall in the 1990s]
    6. 15963 in blue SAD717W
    7. 15969 RWH32 from the Bramley photo red/bla [although I thought it was RWH33] - does anyone have a photo of this car [previously registered AEL333L, I believe?]

    It's a Daytona Spyder free for all!

    Robert
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  3. johngtc

    johngtc Formula Junior
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    Mar 4, 2005
    814
    Yorkshire, UK
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    John Gould
    #78 johngtc, Jan 19, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  4. gt4me

    gt4me F1 Veteran

    Sep 10, 2005
    5,364
    UK
    Love that first colour photo.
     
  5. torquespeak

    torquespeak Formula Junior

    Dec 24, 2010
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    Ed
    In my experience, the only way of knowing what cherished registration plates were on cars before the early 1980s is by either having sight of the history with old V5Cs, or the original buff logbook showing the different plates with date stamps.

    DVLA's electronic data obviously only goes so far back before the computing system was brought in (which is why a car might have seven owners, but DVLA only has a record of the most recent five, etc etc...).

    The data limitation applies to reg plate transfers as well. I've never seen an electronic DVLA record of a plate transfer any earlier than 1983.

    '1 JOR' is not connected to 15917 on any PUBLIC record of the car, but that is not to say that it was never physically attached to it.

    Furthermore, plates have sometimes appeared on cars that they were never technically assigned to (I'm not saying this is the case here - but just a side note).

    If anyone's got any evidence to show that 1 JOR was once on 15917 then I'm sure we'd all be interested to see it.

    -Ed
     
  6. torquespeak

    torquespeak Formula Junior

    Dec 24, 2010
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    Ed
    David are these photos all from the same year? If so, I'm not sure the Daytona on the left in the row of four is BHJ 86J.

    The top left photo shows PDR 7, which I assume is ex-Paul Reece 14059? If that's correct, the other car can't be BHJ 86J.

    -Ed
     
  7. Ramboy

    Ramboy Formula Junior
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    Aug 6, 2009
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    Stockholm
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    David Ramm
    I attended the event in both 1988 and 1989, and suspect some photos have got muddled up over the years, so yes they could relate to different years.
    David
     
  8. torquespeak

    torquespeak Formula Junior

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    Ed
    #83 torquespeak, Jan 19, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2016
    Is the third-from-right Daytona in the row of four 'JEP 41', ie s/n 16659?

    If it is, I'm fairly certain that the 'row' photograph is from 1988, and the top left photo showing SML 6M (s/n 16807) is from 1989 (with Mr Reece's Daytona s/n 14059 registered as 'PDR 7').

    We sold 16659 last year, so I know that it was on 'JEP 41' from spring 1986 until summer 1989 - but in particular, I know that it had already been taken off JEP 41 and put on RPK 199M by the time of the 1989 concours.

    If this is the case, then the Daytona on the far left of the row almost certainly is s/n 14059 as 'BHJ 86J' in 1988 before it was assigned one of Mr Reece's cherished plates.

    -Ed
     
  9. johngtc

    johngtc Formula Junior
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    Mar 4, 2005
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    John Gould
    Just noticed it was on here a couple of years ago! Apologies for duplication.

    John
     
  10. Wheels1

    Wheels1 F1 Rookie
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    Oct 23, 2007
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    #85 Wheels1, Jan 19, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2016
    It says on Barchetta something similar Matt. :- powered roof, but just fuel injection to the engine, done by Pininfarina, just after the Sultan on Brunei bought it
     
  11. Ramboy

    Ramboy Formula Junior
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    David Ramm
    Ed,
    I can only add to the confusion, since having now checked, the album from where the photo came is marked Brocket Hall Concours 1989, and I am photographed with my dad's F-reg BMW 318i so it can't be July 1988!
    Studying the photo again, and looking at he results of the concours in 1989, the identity of three cars is clear.
    Mel Farrar 317 points 16601 MEL4
    John Parker 266 points 16659 JEP41
    Julian Cottrell 339 points 15835 MPB125K
    The winner of the Daytona class was Nigel Weyman with WBY6L (?), (15975), then red,from a photo in the FOC Magazine.
    The other concours participants were Ed Fehler (a Daytona S), Ronnie Hirsch (15387?), Nicholas Thompson (13945?) and T Farrell (16575?). No details of their cars are reported in the club Magazine so I've taken serial numbers from club register.
    The registration of the plexiglass Daytona is almost definitely BHJ 86J.
    David
     
  12. torquespeak

    torquespeak Formula Junior

    Dec 24, 2010
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    Ed
    Hmm, that's a puzzle. In fairness, I never saw photographic proof that 'JEP 41' was switched to 'RPK 199M' before July 1989, but given the transfer happened nearly two months earlier, I assumed the plate swap would have been done. Perhaps not...

    I assume the original photo is much clearer than the scan? I can barely make out any characters from the car on the far left. Are there are specific numbers/letters in the plate that you are 100% certain of?

    Weyman's car (15975) was 'MBY 6L'. This car has recently returned to the UK and is currently painted in Blu Sera.

    The Fehler car would have been s/n 14911 (Euro Daytona conversion, BHJ 124J - which you posted earlier in this thread).

    Hirsh's was indeed 15387 (registered '7 DTA' - and previously owned by Ed Fehler some years earlier too).

    Thompson's was registered 'EPH 64J', as mentioned already when it appeared in the background of a photo from earlier in the thread:
    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/144444723-post46.html

    Farrell's (s/n 16575) was registered NHW 447L at the time.

    -Ed
     
  13. Ramboy

    Ramboy Formula Junior
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    David Ramm
    #88 Ramboy, Jan 20, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  14. torquespeak

    torquespeak Formula Junior

    Dec 24, 2010
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    Ed
    Thanks for the high res image, David. The Daytona in question is without a doubt 'BHJ 86J'. The other photo you posted of the same car as 'PDR 7' must have been from 1988.

    The third-in-line car, 'JEP 41' was sold to the next owner about a month about the 1989 concours on 23 August - so I think that was probably when the physical plate transfer (to RPK 199M) happened. My mistake - never assume, etc etc...

    On the other Daytonas pictured... VVO 1 is s/n 16737, originally Blu Chiaro. L 63 is s/n 16827, originally Oro Chiaro.

    The blue 308 GTB (KYN 315X) is a late steel carb car, s/n 31185.

    -Ed
     
  15. Mark Shannon

    Mark Shannon Formula 3
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    Dec 28, 2003
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    According to my own information the FOC Concours was held at Birtsmorton Court twice. 1986 and 1991.

    Mark
     
  16. Mark Shannon

    Mark Shannon Formula 3
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    Dec 28, 2003
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    #91 Mark Shannon, Jan 20, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I will check with Graham Cook, but I am sure he has told me in the past that all three cars are genuine examples.

    Let us assume that is the case, then 1JOR in the picture can only be 15917. Of the others, one is black, one in blue, and the remaining two at that time were red with black inside.

    Picture of 15841 in front of the picture.

    Mark

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  17. Mark Shannon

    Mark Shannon Formula 3
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    #92 Mark Shannon, Jan 20, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Here is 15917 taken by me, pretty certain it was 1980, at Silverstone for the VSCC meeting.

    Please note this car does not have a nose bar.

    Picture my Copyright.

    Mark
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  18. Mark Shannon

    Mark Shannon Formula 3
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    #93 Mark Shannon, Jan 20, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  19. Mark Shannon

    Mark Shannon Formula 3
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    Dec 28, 2003
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    #94 Mark Shannon, Jan 20, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  20. Robert W

    Robert W Formula 3

    Mar 13, 2005
    1,313
    Oxford, UK
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    Robert Westall
    #95 Robert W, Jan 20, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  21. V8TDF

    V8TDF Rookie
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    May 2, 2014
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    Stamford
    I think the yellow 308 noted as 'Hillclimb car' on page 1 of this thread may be reg. no. 30B, Brian Jacksons car which has been a regular and successful Hillclimb competitor for 30 years. Car is affectionately known as Bob.

    It was taken out of the series last year for restoration but will be back this year. I'm looking forward to competing with it again.
     
  22. torquespeak

    torquespeak Formula Junior

    Dec 24, 2010
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    Ed
    It is the Brian Jackson car - for posterity, the plate is '3 OB'.

    We see the car on 'KVP 313W' on page 1 of this thread; at various points in its life it was also registered as '2222 KP' and as '1 BAT'.

    -Ed
     
  23. Robert W

    Robert W Formula 3

    Mar 13, 2005
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    Oxford, UK
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    Robert Westall
  24. Robert W

    Robert W Formula 3

    Mar 13, 2005
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    Robert Westall
    #99 Robert W, Jan 23, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  25. gt4me

    gt4me F1 Veteran

    Sep 10, 2005
    5,364
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    Great photos Robert.
     

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