# of Lug Nuts versus # of Spokes on road wheels? | FerrariChat

# of Lug Nuts versus # of Spokes on road wheels?

Discussion in 'General Automotive Discussion' started by James_Woods, Sep 8, 2014.

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  1. James_Woods

    James_Woods F1 World Champ

    May 17, 2006
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    Maybe it is meaningless in the greater cosmic scheme of things, but this has been bugging me for a long time:

    There seems to be a profusion of wheels with a mismatch of symmetry between the number of spokes and the number of lug nuts - i.e., 8 spoke wheels with 5 lug nuts, 7 spoke wheels with either 5 or 4 lug nuts, and so on ad absurdum.

    If you were personally designing a wheel, wouldn't you make it rotationally symmetric? That is, 5 lug nut wheels should have 5 or 10 spokes, 4 lug nut wheels should have 4 or 8 spokes, and so on.

    Yes, I know that engineering issues - balance and strength, etc. - probably are meaningless on this. I am talking about the visual aspects of the design.

    I am such a fanatic that I even think cooling holes on steel disk wheels should follow the rule - 15 holes on 5 bolt wheels, etc. I have not taken a position on wire wheels yet as most of the legitimate ones seem to be knock-off hubs which are exempt by definition.

    Is anyone here with me on this pet peeve? Or am I crazy and should be sent to bed with a hot water bottle and a stiff bourbon?
     
  2. Tcar

    Tcar F1 Rookie

    You have just described why Fuchs Porsche 911 wheel are perfect.
     
  3. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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    been involved with this phenomonon for many years.
    generally, the engineering team will dictate the number of lugs for all the technical reasons, weight, cost, offsets, suspension geometry, loads, etc.
    the design team then takes that criteria and designs a wheel around the criteria whether it's 4 lugs or 5.
    how many spokes that wind up on the final design are driven by weight, cost, design, etc.
    most people are hung up on the 'classical 5 spoke design'......but i'm not an advocate of that philosophy
    i've asked my design class to come up with a creative wheel design for their Mercedes SL designs..............we'll see what happens :)
     
  4. Devilsolsi

    Devilsolsi F1 Veteran
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    I am curious how you feel about Porsche's desire to use centerlocks on a lot of their wheels now.

    I have honestly never thought about the number of lugs vs the number of spokes.
     
  5. James_Woods

    James_Woods F1 World Champ

    May 17, 2006
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    I really like the Porsche centerlocks (except for how much they cost).

    Remember, I had the single bolt wheels with the 5 spoke wheels on my Testarossa...(and I liked those very much for style) - single bolt wheels are rotationally symmetric with any number of spokes...i.e., the number of attachment bolts divide into the spoke numbers as an integer, not a fraction.

    I have an adopted cat, and she thinks my idea of having a bourbon and going to bed is an excellent idea. I suspect she thinks I am crazy over this subject, but I pointed out that I have not gone to the extreme of counting the spokes in wire wheels versus the number of ears on the knockoffs.
     
  6. James_Woods

    James_Woods F1 World Champ

    May 17, 2006
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    Yes, I did count the spokes on my Aston Martin before I bought it, and they have 10/5 (symmetric) on the summer 19" wheels, and 5/5 (also symmetric) on the 18" winter wheels.
     
  7. Scotty

    Scotty F1 Veteran
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    This has driven me nuts (more nuts?) for years. I can't stand 4 lugs on 5 spokes. I'm okay when the lugs somehow relate to spoke number, or where there aren't spokes (honeycomb designs) I don't care. I thought I was crazy, and have never really discussed this before. Check one thing off of my bucket list.
     
  8. James_Woods

    James_Woods F1 World Champ

    May 17, 2006
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    Thank you Scotty, and a virtual bourbon to you for seeing this important issue.
     
  9. Nativetroy

    Nativetroy F1 Veteran
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    I get it, it throws me sometimes. I also don't like anything less than 5 spokes, three or four look strange. I don't mind if they hide lugs, but exposed should match someway.
     
  10. Scotty

    Scotty F1 Veteran
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    Virtual bourbon much enjoyed, neat. Thanks.
     

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