OEM welds on frame

You are absolutely correct! I did I factory tour last year and was amazed by how poor some of the welds were particularly on the frame that supports the bumper. Certainly not what you would have expected on a "quality" piece of engineering. But "it doesnt show so why worry" would be the answer?

 

Yup - Mr Blobby was also a Ferrari factory welder. It's been discussed a lot in the Ferrari forums... with one of the best comments here: http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=158271

"There is a great deal of difference comparing the welds of a computerised robot with those of a man. I guess if your looking for Hundai perfection, your never going to find it with anything hand built. And if your looking for race level chassis strength, youll never find it in mass production. "

http://www.ferrari101.com/forum/showthread.php?t=303481

 

Your absolutely correct. Although ugly does not matter as long as the welds are not overheated and have proper penetration. I have seen many welds that just do not "pass"
Yes I do expect better welds

 

If the welds are serving their purpose, and they are not visible without either putting the car up on a lift or getting down on your hands and knees, then I don't think it matters what they look like.

 

Have you ever seen italian production? Laziness and passion mix mysteriously in them.
Everything is 'closer to the ground' then you would expect.
A week ago I was at the excursion to Ferrari factory. And for example they are moving unpainted doors or just painted bodys from one part of the factory to another without any special packaging, just with a small bobcat or something alike.

 

Just because you can't see it or it seems to be working is no excuse for crappy workmanship, especially on a car like a Ferrari. Ugly welds look ugly because they have a lot in common with bad welds.

 

I think you misunderstood me - I didn't say if the weld "looks" like it's doing its job or "seems" to be doing its job - I said that if the weld IS doing its job, why does it matter what it looks like? Give me an ugly weld that does the job over a pretty weld that does not...are we really debating whether or not a weld is pretty?

And regarding workmanship - its not just the welds that are crappy in a Ferrari

 

I didn't misunderstand you at all. I'm saying there is no reason that Luigi can't lay down a weld that looks good as well as performs the task at hand. Regarding the physicality of a weld, I've seen a lot more ugly bad welds than pretty bad welds. There is a reason a weld looks ugly to even the untrained eye. And yes, we are definitely debating whether a weld is pretty I have pride in the stuff I build and I would expect the same thing from a race-inspired luxury car.

Just to preempt debate, I'm not a Ferrari-hater by any means. I wanted a 355 until I figured out how expensive they are to own.

 

You being a Ferrari hater didn't even cross my mind . In fact, I thought you were a Ferrari owner.

You are right, there should be no reason why the welds can't be pretty, but all I am trying to point out is that the weld doing its job is more important than what it looks like...and I too take pride in everything I do, perhaps you and I should work at the Ferrari factory

 

I am going to take that part as a sort of a compliment

 

This comment is rubbish when we are talking about welds. The VERY best welds that can be done are done by computers/machines, not by hand. (Heck even in the small engineering shop I used to work in we created simple machines that rotated the objects being welded to get perfect welds, because we wanted the consistency).

And have a look at the welds on a Formula One car and they are a thing of beauty.

Also the only reason you will not find race level chassis strength in mass production is the cost, nothing to do with weld quality.

There is no excuse for cr@p welds on Ferraris, other than the worked does not give a damn.
Pete

 

Yes

 

For the record, I've seen worse welding on Detroit iron than on Ferraris but it really comes down to who (or what robot) did the work.

I recently worked on a friend's '85 Monte Carlo that he is restoring as a street/strip car. In the process of welding in some new chassis mods I noticed quite a few factory welds that were pretty pathetic. Apparently over-engineered enough to compensate for poor workmanship, none were broken.

 

This (ahem) depends.

Say you have a welder going about the job of laying down a nice long bead and one part of the bead puddles up. If he goes back and smooths out the bead he very well may (MAY) take the metal being welded over its heat soak tollerance and cause crystalization of the metal at that point. Whereas if he simply continues the whole structure is stronger even if the weld ends up a little funcky.

 

Have a look at a modern motorcycle chassis/frame ... no ugly welds, and they make thousands everyday.
Pete

 

I agree with you .

My 1971 Alfa Romeo has terrible welds and this view that Ferrari welds are poor lead me to believe that Italians cannot weld. They should stick to their wonderful castings.
Pete