OEM Anti-Theft Device Locks Ignition? Also, Other Electrical Questions (Rebuilt Fuse Box Installed) | FerrariChat

OEM Anti-Theft Device Locks Ignition? Also, Other Electrical Questions (Rebuilt Fuse Box Installed)

Discussion in 'Mondial' started by OldSkoolFool, Aug 15, 2023.

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  1. OldSkoolFool

    OldSkoolFool Karting

    Oct 26, 2012
    59
    1985 Mondial QV Euro Cabriolet
    1. What does the OEM anti-theft device actually do? Does it lock the ignition from being able to turn to the starting position? Right now my ignition can turn to the "on" position but feels locked out from being able to turn all the way to start, and thus cannot start the car. Prior in the day I was able to turn it all the way to start and start the car but it stopped being able to do so once I switched some relays around.
    2. I installed a new fuse box from GT Car Parts and it did not solve any electrical problems I was having. A fuse and relay map was included with it as pictured. That "map" is different from what is shown in a service manual that came with the car (see the picture). When going through and diagnosing, my car seems to match up better with the map from the service manual rather than the paper that GT Car Parts sent me. For example, the headlight lifting motor relay position is different between the two "maps" and it it matches with the service manual for mine (I pulled the the relay identified on the service manual map and the headlights didn't lift. I pulled the relay identified on the GT Car Parts map and the headlights still lifted). Another example are the fuse locations. The map from GT Car Parts shows 9 fuse spots on the left hand side whereas mine has 11 on the left hand side and matches the service manual also showing 11 on the left hand side. Also when pulling fuses, they matched properly with the service manual locations (ex: Pulled the parking lights fuse and they turned off with the service manual location, but did not do so with the GT Car Parts map). The question is: What diagram should I be using?
    Here were some example problems when using the GT Car Parts provided map for the relay positions: Fuel pump stops running and goes to 0.00V when the ignition is at the start position (and seemed sporadic or stopped working after the engine was started and running as well with the key then back to the "on" position), headlamps not turning on (but go up)

    Here are example problems when using the the service manual relay positions: Ignition not able to be turned to the start position, headlamps not turning on (but go up)

    I have gone through just about every ground on the car, cleaned them, put dielectric grease on them, etc. The grounds really didn't look bad and no changes occurred after cleaning the grounds.

    It would be nice if someone could walk me through how the headlight switch/stalk is supposed to work. It's been awhile since I have driven my car and it does not seem to be operating properly now. The stalk has three positions (up, middle, down) and the rotating switch on the stalk has two positions (rotated forward, rotated backwards). Here is what mine is doing right now:
    1. Stalk up, rotated back: nothing
    2. Stalk up, rotated forward: headlight doors are lifted but headlights are not on
    3. Stalk middle, rotated back: nothing
    4. Stalk middle, rotated forwards: headlights doors are down, outside headlight and parking lights on
    5. Stalk down, rotated backwards: nothing
    6. Stalk down, rotated forwards: headlight doors are down, both inside and outside lamps and parking lights are on

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  2. Alden

    Alden F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 25, 2010
    3,364
    Central Florida
    Could be a broken solder joint inside this stock itself, it's an easy repair and is listed in the DIY section, you only have to pull the end of the stock off and resolder the connection, might not solve all your problems, but, that's usually where headlight and other faults with the lighting system originate, or you might need new relays.
    Alden
     
  3. theunissenguido

    theunissenguido F1 Rookie
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Jan 21, 2004
    2,573
    Argent/Brasil
    Full Name:
    Guido
    I do not understand ...did GT parts give you a board that has an other diagram then your OEM board ?
     
  4. Alden

    Alden F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 25, 2010
    3,364
    Central Florida
  5. OldSkoolFool

    OldSkoolFool Karting

    Oct 26, 2012
    59
    Thank you for the suggestion. I will take a look at the DIY section. In regards to the end of the stalk, the part that gets rotated, I did have that off and it is working properly (just to copper contacts).

    I sent my original fuse box to GT Parts. They sent it back to me with their updated board in my original black plastic case, thus the case (ex: fuse positions) match up with a diagram I had originally in a Ferrari service manual that came with my car. The diagram GT Parts gave me for the location of the fuses and relays does not match up with what my car does (ex: wiper relay is in different positions).

    Big thanks for sending this. It is nicely organized and drawn up. I will compare it to the diagrams that I have.
     
  6. theunissenguido

    theunissenguido F1 Rookie
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Jan 21, 2004
    2,573
    Argent/Brasil
    Full Name:
    Guido
    Looking at your pictures above, the right 3 lines relais showing some errors. Look at Afterburner drawing for the relais on
    right side...upper purple (101 ending), second raw brown (113 ending), lower raw brown (113 ending),
    second line right side = upper brown (113 ending), second raw brown (113 ending), lower raw purple (101 ending)....
    third line right side = upper K relais, second raw purple (101 ending).....
    The WSM is showing some errors of relais numbers and locations.
     
  7. afterburner

    afterburner F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 20, 2008
    3,445
    Hong Kong
    The ignition key lock is a combination of a mechanical pin moved in or out of the steering column by turning the key, and an attached electrical switch for the OFF-ON-Starter Motor functions that also gets turned by the key. The machanical and electrical parts have no influence on each other. As long as the key turning fucntions works both get driven. The electrical switch does not have a function to block the key from being turned. If any of the parts is broken though it could prevent the turning.

    That's the key/switch combo out of its carrier:

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    Here you can see the carrier next to it:

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    That's the assembly ready to be fitted to the steering column, held in by that little screw:
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    That's the locking pin sticking out the inner end of the assembly
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  8. afterburner

    afterburner F1 Rookie
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    Jun 20, 2008
    3,445
    Hong Kong
    PM if you are interested in readable wiring diagrams.
     
  9. OldSkoolFool

    OldSkoolFool Karting

    Oct 26, 2012
    59
    Afterburner, Thanks much for the reply, pics, and info. So from what you are describing, there is nothing security wise related or anything (other than a potential mechanical issue in the lock cylinder) that should be keeping me from turning the ignition all the way to the start position? I'll send you a PM about better schematics. I have multiple different factory ones and follow them pretty well but based on reading some others' posts in the past it sounds like there were some incorrect layouts on some of them.
     
  10. OldSkoolFool

    OldSkoolFool Karting

    Oct 26, 2012
    59
    Relays question:

    The two main original relay part numbers were:
    -0332014113 (pink on my drawing)
    -0332204101 (orange on my drawing)

    What GT Car Parts gave me new was:
    -0986AHO251 (replaces the 0332014113)
    -0332209151 (replaces the 0332204101)

    Per the Afterburner map I should instead be using:
    -0332019151 (replaces the original 0332014113)
    -0332209151 (replaces the original 0332204101)

    Per the info from After Burner, one of the relays I got from GT Parts would not be correct. I just want to confirm this as for next steps I will order the relays as suggested by After Burner and install them per that layout and see what happens.
     
  11. afterburner

    afterburner F1 Rookie
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    Jun 20, 2008
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    Hong Kong
    To my knowledge that's correct. Wiggle the steering wheel a bit while trying! :D
     
  12. afterburner

    afterburner F1 Rookie
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    Jun 20, 2008
    3,445
    Hong Kong
    That's correct I think.
     
  13. afterburner

    afterburner F1 Rookie
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    Jun 20, 2008
    3,445
    Hong Kong
    0332019151 (formerly 0332014113) is functionally identical with 0986AHO251, so you can use what you have instead of what I used (which is BOSCH's straight replacement)
     
  14. afterburner

    afterburner F1 Rookie
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    Jun 20, 2008
    3,445
    Hong Kong
    However - 5 of your relays are positioned wrongly; below how it should look with your colors.

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    Please follow the position attributions as per my diagram.
     
    85QVEuro and Alden like this.
  15. OldSkoolFool

    OldSkoolFool Karting

    Oct 26, 2012
    59
    I really appreciate all the continued help, info, pics, and problem solving. Thanks everyone! I am planning to try the layout as suggested by Afterburner and do some more diagnosing. Whenever I get the car properly sorted I will report back on what the solution was.
     
  16. OldSkoolFool

    OldSkoolFool Karting

    Oct 26, 2012
    59
    Current update:

    1. Some WD40 helped loosen up the ignition further and I was able to turn the key all the way to start.
    2. I updated the relay layout per what Afterburner suggested and the GREAT news is everything seems to be correct! The car starts, the headlights work properly, the windows work, the glovebox lid even opens when it didn't prior, etc. So I am happy to say as of right now the GT Car Parts fuse box and Afterburner's relay layout is working for my Mondial!

    Huge thanks everyone for the help, guidance, and suggestions. This is such a great and helpful community.
     
    afterburner likes this.

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