News

Not crappy replicas!!!!

Discussion in 'General Automotive Discussion' started by redhammer, May 28, 2012.

  1. Bullfighter

    Bullfighter Two Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 26, 2005
    20,691
    Fullerton, California
    Full Name:
    Jon
  2. koisokok

    koisokok F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 8, 2006
    6,715
    San Marino , CA
    Full Name:
    kerim
  3. ferraripete

    ferraripete F1 World Champ

    this may be a bargain at $67k? this looks fantastic!!!!
     
  4. white out

    white out Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Mar 3, 2010
    792
    SoCal
    Full Name:
    Nick
    I would love to have a replica 550 spyder to beat the snot out of, park in the city, and not give a crap if it never was washed, had paint chips/scratches/dents, or blew-up the motor (VW motors are dirt cheap to build).
     
  5. Dinofan2

    Dinofan2 Rookie

    Oct 25, 2013
    17
    #206 Dinofan2, Mar 18, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Cheers to that!


    ....I think that's the idea, seriously how many people get to drive a Dino IN THE SNOW!!!!
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  6. Carbuilder

    Carbuilder Formula Junior

    Aug 18, 2012
    532
    Bolton, ON
    Full Name:
    Rick
    Yes, it is black and white. But which is it in your example? It is NOT illegal for me to make a fake anything, as long as it is for myself and I'm not trying to sell it as an original. Ever go to an art gallery and see some student copying a old master painting? Not illegal at all unless he tries to pass it off as an original.

    So replica cars are generally not illegal.

    Rick
     
  7. Carbuilder

    Carbuilder Formula Junior

    Aug 18, 2012
    532
    Bolton, ON
    Full Name:
    Rick
    Cool headlights on that Dino. Looks like from a Porsche. Gives it a nice updated look.
     
  8. Bradley

    Bradley F1 Rookie

    Nov 23, 2006
    2,831
    Lakewood, Colorado
    Full Name:
    Bradley
    While I see your point of view, I think that anyone who wears a copy of a Rolex that says Rolex is perpetrating fraud. While he may not be breaking any laws by wearing it, it certainly says something about his character.

    I think the same goes for "replica" cars.

    While a great deal of work and skill does go into many of the better replicas, putting the logo of the original on it and/or pretending that it is original may not be a crime, but it still isn't right.
     
  9. Simon

    Simon Moderator
    Moderator Owner

    Aug 29, 2003
    5,895
    Switzerland
    Full Name:
    Simon
    And the owner of this car is also not driving a Dino in the snow.

     
  10. Carbuilder

    Carbuilder Formula Junior

    Aug 18, 2012
    532
    Bolton, ON
    Full Name:
    Rick
    I actually had Remo Ferri (President of Ferrari Ontario) pull into my driveway when he saw my Dino replica I was working on. He introduced himself and gave me his card. He quickly realized it was not a real Dino and said "Ferrari doesn't like it when people do that". It was said good-naturedly but obviously he didn't like it.

    So the point is, if he/Ferrari had any power to stop me or take the car away he certainly would have. So Ferrari doesn't like what I'm doing. Well I don't like the fact that the 355 I bought had the interior bits go all sticky, the dash leather shrink, the headers crack, the cats blow out.....Maybe what they don't like is that I've built a better car than they did.

    Rick
     
  11. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    May 27, 2004
    11,724
    CT
    Full Name:
    Sean
    Point is there is a vast difference between a fiberglass repilca and a tool room recreation. One is a silhoutee of something rendered in plastic that may have completly different suspension frame and powertrain, and a other is an exact new build of a period car.

    Aston and Jaguar to name two have built and are building recreations, wellt hey license it out more than build in house. Lots of other companies do too, Lola, Chevron, GT40. Many of these are licensed by the rights holders. Others like Pursang build tool room cars and dont put the badge on. Some otehrs license cars like Shelby, but they are far from recreations. So some chaos of classification exits. But make no mistake a licensed recreation is very accepted these days at the ebst events, and are owned by many true conniseurs simply because they are potentialy crashble and therefore useable in way a true historic car is not.

    That is before we even get into the debate of how much historic car is actualy left in many data plate historic cars.

    Many in the USA object because they say its not the origional car from the 60s etc. Cars may be a form of art, but they are serial production industrial items built to a blueprint. Same as say a new build post and beam house.

    Yes no one should pretend that a new build is an old build. But I cant think of anyone with a new build tool room copy or recreation who pretends its an old build. That pretending maybe belongs to the fiberglass crowd to the extent it takes place, and even here most dont do it.

    The objections may have the root in jealousy, how come you get to drive a XKss and I dotn, or a snob belief that only a few exist and no one else shoudl ahve or experience one, because maybe someone could get fooled, perhaps the truth lays in that most people dont really DRIVE the cars as designed so value these cars for other reasons.

    Across the board pre war car peopel dont seem to have issue, because mostly prewar cars are still owned and driven by real driving enthusiasts, who enjoy the mechanical aspects over other "values" and woudl rather have more peopel involved and enjoyign than less.

    Lastly in Europe where most of these "origional" cars were built, there is near total acceptance of recreations, and you will see many of the orgional manufactuers, building or licencing recreations, and most of the high end dealers selling them, as well as FIA and historic acceptance.

    Acceptance begats standards, good builds and correct classification.

    I could generalize and say Ferrari people tend to be snobs, seeming more obsessed with value than driving experience. or maybe its because Jaguars and the like were far more porlific, so cutting up an old e type of Mk2 does not destroy anything too rare to make a recreation. Its also interesting that if yous start with an old car its technicaly a rebody, so you can put the badges on.

    In ferrari land we rightly frown on cutting cars, but if you cut your old 250 or whatevr ferrari to make a recreation its also a rebody technicaly and you can put badges on it quite legally. Its your ferrari to alter as you please. So ironicaly the current situation creates a market to cut historic cars, and pretend, instead of encouraging building the whole thing from scratch and not pretending. The ultimate indignity was destroying a historic period preserved ferrari can am car, literaly cutting it to make a "legitimate" p3 replica, all in the name of snobbery.

    Truth be told who cares what badge goes on the machine, or when it was built, its what the car is, how its made, materials used, how correctly it drives that counts, right? At least thats what the old bugatti folks say.
     
  12. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    May 27, 2004
    11,724
    CT
    Full Name:
    Sean
  13. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    May 27, 2004
    11,724
    CT
    Full Name:
    Sean
  14. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    May 27, 2004
    11,724
    CT
    Full Name:
    Sean
    After chassis had been completed in the workshops of Richard Williams (RSW), they headed out to Italy for the bodies to be added. These were constructed in the workshops of ex-Zagato employee Mario Galbiatti since Zagato themselves no longer had the facilities to do the work in-house. So as to ensure that the bodies of the Sanction 2 cars were identical to the original cars, Williams had his own car sent to Italy to be dismantled and used as a template. After delays due to Richard Williams involvement in the AMR1 Group C racing project, the four Sanction 2 cars were unveiled in July 1991 at the premises of RSW in Cobham, Surrey.

    One example shown, (DB4GT/0192 – 455YYC); it is virtually identical to the earlier cars with some minor but significant modifications.

    Platform chassis based on DB4GT/0181/L with additional strengthening to improve torsional rigidity
    a slightly larger capacity 4.2 litre engine (4212cc, 3.7 litre on the original) with 50DC01/SP Weber carburetors (replacing 45DCOE’s) developing 352 bhp (up from 314)
    Front suspension as in 1961 but with adjustable and thicker anti-roll bar
    Rear suspension as in 1961 with improved location and adjustable
    Modern Goodyear Eagle NCT tyres on 15 inch diameter, 6 inch wide rims (down from16inch by 5 inch)
    The stated cost of each recreated car (all pre-sold) was a massive £750,000 although in reality they may have actually cost around two thirds of that to build. Whilst one example passed through Brooks Geneva auction in March 1998 for a little under £310,000 plus buyers commission, more recently at Bonhams Works auction in 2012, another car made significantly more.

    In no way can the Sanction 2 cars be seen as mere copies. They are absolutely accurate examples only separated by a period of 30 years from the first batch of cars. At the time of their unveiling, Victor Gauntlett described them as ‘works approved replicas’ as the project was blessed by both AML and Zagato. It must also be noted that a number of standard DB4 cars have been rebuilt with Zagato type bodies by such people as GTC engineering with Shapecraft, Goldsmith and Young, Aston Workshop, Desmond Smail, Stratton Motor Company and Fourways Engineering.

    In 1992, RS Williams were given approval from AML to produce a further two cars from extra parts left over from the Sanction 2 project. The cars started out as standard DB4’s in poor condition and were completed in 2000. Zagato has stated that it wants no further cars to be built so as not to spoil the market. These cars have been named by the AMHT as Sanction 3 cars.
     
  15. zudnic

    zudnic Formula 3

    Nov 13, 2014
    1,662
    Vancouver
  16. JohnnyRay

    JohnnyRay Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 2, 2014
    1,467
    Central FL/NW WI
    #218 JohnnyRay, May 15, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  17. zudnic

    zudnic Formula 3

    Nov 13, 2014
    1,662
    Vancouver
    Oh while nice the Intermeccanica is almost $100k CDN to build one new. Once you pay tax or if an American buys one, duty and tax. You might as well buy a real one. At least you'll have an appreciating asset VS a used fiberglass piece of crap in a few years.

    http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/cars-for-sale/porsche/356a/1835259.html

    Id rather have patina flaws VS a shiny new 356 with design flaws that make it "fake". Even if you blow the motor in the real "cheap" driver real deal. In 10years it will be worth triple of what the replica will be worth!

    I have a different view of really top end Cobra replicas and the one or two really nice GT40's I've seen. Even Jay Leno has a high end aluminum bodied Cobra replica.
     
  18. any_1

    any_1 Formula 3

    Sep 6, 2006
    1,065
    Sweden
    #220 any_1, May 16, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    This "Mondial" is built by coachbuilder Motorima. Many years ago Ulf Norinder let an entrepreneur make a mold from his Mondial. He started to churn out fibreglass replica bodies that he put on various chassis, called Ockelbo-racers. Motorima handcrafted this car in aluminium from the mold.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     

Share This Page