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Not crappy replicas!!!!

Discussion in 'General Automotive Discussion' started by redhammer, May 28, 2012.

  1. Bullfighter

    Bullfighter Two Time F1 World Champ
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    It's hard for me to convey, politely, what low regard I have for fakes. Sometimes I think I'm too nuanced in my posts here. I'm in favor of prosecuting people who steal others' intellectual property, so this whole area turns me off in a big way.

    Honestly, if I had the misfortune of "winning" a fake car, I would eBay it and hope that someone who knows nothing about cars picks it up. If I were more virtuous, I would send it off to get crushed and do my part to make the car hobby better.

    I agree with this.

    If you drive a 355, you're driving a Ferrari.

    If you drive a fake F40, it's basically just a kit -- might as well be a Barbie Jeep. You're still not driving an F40. If onlookers think you are, then you're engaged in an act of deception (legal, but not commendable).
     
  2. nathandarby67

    nathandarby67 F1 Veteran
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    Interesting. In my opinion it would have probably been EASIER to just take a real one and copy everything exactly. Make a mold, then produce castings, etc. If ALL the parts are off by a wee bit that has to be intentional, and hopefully for the very reason you mentioned. Plus it allows extremely easy verification as to if a car (or a part) is an original or reproduction. It eliminates the possibility of someone trying to sell a fake one as the real thing.
     
  3. nathandarby67

    nathandarby67 F1 Veteran
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    So you would be in favor of prosecuting Russ for building his Camel?

    I agree 100% on this and the point made by jgriff about why bother to replicate a relatively inexpensive, relatively common car like a Diablo or 355 or F40. The real ones aren't THAT much more expensive than what a really well done replica would cost, and you lose 100% of the feel of the real thing as soon as you drop a Chevy 350 or whatever in it. I think there is a pretty gigantic chasm between say a well done re-bodied Fiero and the hand build craftsmanship of things like the Pur Sang, and Proteus cars, and stuff like the Catherham cars.
     
  4. Bullfighter

    Bullfighter Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I have zero knowledge when it comes to vintage aircraft, and have no idea whether anyone owns the rights to the Camel design or emblems.

    For Ferrari emblems, Ferrari owns them, so the fake 'F40' above is basically theft. Quality or lack thereof is immaterial.

    I'm not saying these people have no talent. They probably do technically excellent work, just like some counterfeit rare coins are superb and others are crude. Somehow defenders of fakes think that a really convincing one is better than one that wouldn't deceive anyone.

    They're all fakes.

    It's more a question of how these talented, creative people spend their time: aping someone else's design from 50 years ago or doing something innovative and significant. There are some Elvis impersonators who must practice day in and day out, but ultimately they're all a bit of a joke.

    We don't need a Proteus. Buy a C-Type or buy something else authentic that you can afford. Anything else is just denial. Life goes on, and it is possible to meet girls even with cars that cost <$50K. You aren't going to be participating in any events in a Proteus that you couldn't do in a Honda Civic.
     
  5. James_Woods

    James_Woods F1 World Champ

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    It is just my theory. I thought it up on the notion that perhaps they did not want to be accused of a direct counterfeit.

    For sure - they had access to a car and the real remaining plans to be able to do this. Like you say - in today's technical world it would have been easier to replicate it perfectly - even to use remaining spares supply from the real type 35 stores.

    It is a remarkable accomplishment - even if it did not come from Molsheim.
     
  6. dbw

    dbw Formula Junior

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    hey bullfighter...real cars i've owned and driven/raced..miller-ford ex factory george bailey [chassis 5], gulf miller ex gulf billy winn] [chassis 001], porsche 550 ex factory/arkus-duntov [chassis 0048], bugatti T35b ex factory boriot [chassis 4948].....bugatti T37, ex me, driven by me, [chassis bc50] ....do i give a rats's ass???? hardly.....stop whining and drive some cars....btw..tritone [alfa GTA,too many porsches and ferraris] can tell some wild stories of rides in the 550 on the street...too many good times to list.
     
  7. nathandarby67

    nathandarby67 F1 Veteran
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    Just speaking for myself, as to why I would theoretically like a Proteus (although truth be told, for the money there are many other things I would buy first)....

    I already have other authentic cars.

    I already have the girl.

    I do not care one bit about participating in any particular events.

    I just love to drive neat cars, purely for my own enjoyment.

    I love the looks and design of the C-Type.

    The Proteus looks like it would be a blast to drive.

    That's enough for me to feel like I would enjoy one. But I understand why others folks with different opinions feel the way they do, and that's ok too. To each their own. I have long since passed the point of caring what other folks think about something as trivial as what kind of car I am driving. Spend a little time tootling around in an MG Midget, and it will beat that right out of you!
     
  8. JeremyJon

    JeremyJon F1 Veteran

    Jul 28, 2010
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    some very inflexible opinion here, which is only one opinion, and just only that!

    outright replicas have a place for those who respect them, and in my first reply to OP is this particular forum, will not be forthcoming much

    rebodies have a place, and a different crowd respect them for what they are

    what is common ground IMO is that no one here wishes to see a perfectly good Ferrari cut up for use either way

    of course "haters will hate" as they say :rolleyes:
     
  9. nathandarby67

    nathandarby67 F1 Veteran
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    On this I am sure we all agree 100%.
     
  10. tritone

    tritone F1 Rookie
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    Funny that the ride I remember most vividly was the time when the fire extinguisher popped and we thought the roller crank motor had blown.....happy to discover the noise continued after the motor was turned off.....;-)
     
  11. f308jack

    f308jack F1 Rookie

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    How is driving around in a replica with badges and all any different from having a wad of fake dollar-bills in your wallet?
     
  12. open roads

    open roads F1 Rookie

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    There are those that see this as black, and those that see it as white. I suspect that there are many of us that see some shade of grey. There probably is a lot of grey out there.

    Patents expire for some reason. I'm not sure of the arguements. But this would seem to infer that properties aren't protected forever.

    The Pur Sang would be something I could easily see myself enjoying, for no other reason than I would like to enjoy it. Those who profess to be able to look into my mind and say that I am attempting to fool someone, can't. And probably shouldn't.

    People that don't approve of modifying a Ferrari in any way are a whole set unto themselves. And I like my cars stock, but even I see them as extreme.
     
  13. SamuliS

    SamuliS Formula Junior

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    Well said, but wouldn't you just love the smell of fresh 3$ bill's in your hand ;)

    I own a Westfield, a kit car, that I bought for the fun of driving, but I would/will never ever let any one walk away thinking it's Caterham or even worst, Lotus. But if some one thinks its a vw :D Yes sir, it is made from beetle.
     
  14. mlambert890

    mlambert890 Formula Junior

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    I think the differing opinions are the result of each persons perspective on this.

    I think most would agree that an "F40" made out of a Fiero isn't going to be a unique, fun, and rewarding thing to drive. A monstrosity like that really just exists so the owner can pretend it is real. If someone were to say "great Ferrari!" would the response be "it's really an 84 Fiero with a fiberglass body kit" ? No, it wouldn't. Many enthusiasts find that entire thing distasteful

    On the other hand you have true recreations of genuine "lost" or near lost classics where the result is a legitimate vehicle in its own right. Clearly not as rewarding or remotely special as what it is copying, but still potentially interesting and fun like any kit car might be.

    I see these two categories as enormously different. I also find that folks in the second category always say it's a recreation. This happens a lot with Porsche speedsters or Cobra replicas.


    I know that there are many who feel any "replica" is bad, but I do think that plenty of enthusiasts have no issue with the second category

    I get the feeling the point of the original post was about the first category though. Personally, I feel a "really good" fake of any of the modern cars is something that has never really been done. I think the reason for that is that the motivation is never recreating a lost classic (the cars are readily available) but rather, similar to a fake LV bag, is about giving someone the ability to pretend to have something they either can't, or won't, afford (but yet still feel the need to pretend to have)

    I'd much rather own the Vettes, 911s and NSXs ive been fortunate to be able to own, and now the GTR that I currently drive, than have a "Fieroari", but yet I can see the appeal of a classic Cobra replica purely as a fun track car.
     
  15. Bullfighter

    Bullfighter Two Time F1 World Champ
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    The Fiero in F40 metal is also a legitimate vehicle (can be registered and driven) and a genuine recreation (wasn't made by Ferrari).
     
  16. f308jack

    f308jack F1 Rookie

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    There is metal in a genuine F40 body???
     
  17. Bullfighter

    Bullfighter Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Only in genuine replicas.
     
  18. VF1Skullangel

    VF1Skullangel Formula Junior

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    #68 VF1Skullangel, Jun 2, 2012
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2012
    Theres lots of hypocrisy in this thread. Lots of Elitism here. Many in which are soooo quick to bash a replicar yet they wouldn't mind some silicone tits if given that opportunity. Hell these same people also shop at walmart and buy generic brand products. Why is there such a double standard when it comes to cars IT HAS TO BE ORIGINAL? People can't build one at home because its a Sin. Yet Many hotrodders like Chip Foose and even Boyd Coddington built many Replicars themselves along with Restomods and people love it but when someone builds a Tube chassis Diablo or Murcielago molded off the original car with an LS1 all the sudden its a crappy replica. What difference does it make? That I'm not paying 10k for a clutch job? My car isn't Barrett Jackson worthy or the Value isn't high enough? Please someone fill me in on why its such a cardinal sin to build a replica!

    If I could build a Diablo or Countach like this www.lambobuilder.com I think it would be a ton of fun for the money it beats the hell out of buying another boring ass vette.
     
  19. Cozmic_Kid

    Cozmic_Kid F1 Veteran

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    Nice looking replicas in this thread.

    As for me. I don't think I could ever own one. Even if I had the money.

    I think it is just not the same as the real thing. it may be beautiful an all, but it miss something. It's not the real deal.





    A similar but not identical problem.

    One of the local clubs of American cars is getting quite annoyed. When they have their meetings with Camaro's, Mustang's, Fairlane's etc. Thgey see more and more Korean Chevrolets showing up to become members :D :D
    Now THAT is an epic FAIL :D
     
  20. f308jack

    f308jack F1 Rookie

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    You obviously didn't read any of this thread, or failed to take in what was discussed. Now go have a look at your Mona Lisa, put on your Rolex, your Nike's and go drive the sh"t out of your Lambo. All fake, of course.
     
  21. xs10shl

    xs10shl Formula 3

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    #71 xs10shl, Jun 2, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    As far as "well-engineered" replicas go, I used to own a Lynx XKSS. All-aluminum semi-monocoque, and super fun to drive. Reasonably true-to-original 3.8 with dry sump, street cams and 4-speed, but with E-type suspension and brakes.

    If I could have only one car, this would not be it, but I'm glad I had the experience owning and driving it. I have a new-found respect for those who ran D-types at 150MPH.
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  22. VF1Skullangel

    VF1Skullangel Formula Junior

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    Its very ignorant posts like this that in which you just wrote that caused me to say what I had to say.

    You say its all fake but im sure if I came over to your house I could find a bunch of fake **it just sitting around to so it doesn't make much of a difference if someone is sportin a fake rolex(Which that term is just ****ing stupid to use in this arguement) or wifes fake tits or your fake ferrari. Most folks are posers these days. :)
     
  23. Ferrari Envy

    Ferrari Envy Formula Junior

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    thats a pretty ******y comment. what ******
     
  24. Bullfighter

    Bullfighter Two Time F1 World Champ
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    No double standard here. I think fake Rolexes, fake Gucci, etc., all fall into the same category. Vanity and insecurity. Get a fake so people will think you're successful and lavish you with attention There are truly nice watches, handbags, etc., available in nearly any price range. As far as fake breasts, I guess I'm wiser than I was as a 20 year old and probably less wise than an old man, but in the grand scheme of things it's better to accept nature and reality.

    Let us leave replicas to men with no imagination, as my mechanic Marcel used to say.

    Automotively, a Corvette or Lotus Elise/Exige is a damned good car for someone who wants speed or, in the case of the Lotus, an exotic. Both doable for very sane prices. The Lotus is rarer than modern Lamborghinis/Ferraris in my zip code.

    His phrasing was unfortunate, but fundamentally he's right. Fake is fake. The conversation tends to move away from that truth and devolve into whether craftsmanship can make a fake more real, or less fake.
     
  25. Toronto308

    Toronto308 Formula Junior

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    I'm not so sure fake is fake. Actually, I'm surprised no one has brought this point up yet:

    Many a "rebuilder" took an axe to real Daytona coupes only to make fake Daytona spyders. And don't get me started on the butchery of many 250's of various ilks to make fake GTO's.

    Can you make a fake Ferrari from a real Ferrari? Oh yes, my friend, you can and it's been done. So now the question is; is it okay to make a fake Ferrari from a Ferrari but not okay to make a fake Ferrari from a Fiero or NSX? Not in my opinion.

    If you want some interesting views on fake Ferrari's, go lurk the Vintage forum ;)
     

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