Not all Ferrari owners are craeted equal | FerrariChat

Not all Ferrari owners are craeted equal

Discussion in 'North & South Carolina' started by Europeanroadandracing, Jul 28, 2008.

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  1. Europeanroadandracing

    Europeanroadandracing South Carolina
    Professional Ferrari Technician

    Dec 19, 2003
    2,228
    Isle of Palms, SC
    Full Name:
    Karl Troy
    #1 Europeanroadandracing, Jul 28, 2008
    I know there is a lot of knowledge on this forum among our friends and fellow Ferrari owners.
    After 18+ years in business it was just a matter of time until I met THE ONE Ferrari owner I could have lived without. Mainly I am searching the vast knowledge on F chat for advice.
    Earlier this year I was employed by a F car owner to repair the back of his BB 512. The car is black and needed repair to the tailsection of the car. It required complete removal and disassembly,(grills, louvers,lights, 1000 rivets, etc.)
    While working on the car he asked us to also repair some minor damage on the roof and rust below the rear quarter glass. We had to repair and paint both sides of the car and the roof all the way down the windshield post. We painted nearly have the car. While in our possesion the battery went dead many times even though we disconnected it if it sat for a while.
    I even replaced the plugs because the car burns oil so badly that they fouled over and over since we were only moving the car but never drove it.
    I told the customer that I replaced the plugs but did not charge him.
    On 6/19/08 I told him that we should put a battery in the car so he wouldn't get stranded. He said the battery should be fine. It was when he brought it to us.(That should have been my first hint)
    He picked the car up 2 days later. He asked if all the charges were taken care of. I told him that the insurance company was paying us directly but that he owed for the additional repairs. He asked why we didn't charge the ins. co.. I told him that we are only charging them for the work required to fix the accident damage. It would be illegal to charge them for anything else, especially rust.
    He finally agreed and paid.($1400.-, what a deal)
    We have been waiting for a check for over a month ($4250.-).
    Approx. 2 weeks after receiving the car back the owner called and demanded I reimburse him for a battery. He finally had to replace it and felt that it good when he brought the car so I should reimburse him. I mentioned to him that I had replaced his plugs, I had his car detailed and had some dents removed, all at my expense. I decided to throw those extras in at no extra charge.
    I told him that I felt akward since I had given him hundreds of $$$$ in add. work and now he is demanding $130.- for a battery but I realized that I was talking to a wall. They guy didn't care.
    I wrote him a check and sayed good bye. Trying to be smooth, he told me how great the car looked and how pleased he was with all the work. He would bring it back when he decided to have the top end rebuilt.
    That was 3 weeks ago. Today I talked to the ins. co. and found out that they sent the check to the owner(insured) instead to me and that he had cashed it on the 23rd of June. I finally reached him this evening and he said. Now you know how it feels to to want something you can't have. The way I felt when I was waiting for my car to be done. Now you now how the shoe fits on the other foot. Then he said. You lied to me about the sparkplugs. I questioned why he would say that and he said because they are the same ones I put in. I told him that I installed exactly what came out and I felt they were not stock to compensate for the oil burning.
    He insisted I was lying. I told him since I did not charge him for plugs or labor anyway what that had to do with the ins. check. He said since he had to wait so long for his car to be done and it doesn't run well he wasn't going to pay me the $$$. I would be lucky if he decides to pay me $3k. I find it hard to believe that a guy who makes a special trip to get reimbursed for a battery wouldn't speak up if he had bigger problems. He would probably pitch a tent in my frt. yard.
    I have NEVER experienced such a thing in my life. Does anyone know what the legal aspects are in a matter like this? With the car released, do I have a leg to stand on? Should I ask the Ins. Co. to get involved. I am lost, hurt and disgusted.
    For once, I am asking you guys for help.
    Looking forward to your thoughts.
    Thanks

    Karl Troy

    www.europeanroadandracing.com
     
  2. J. Salmon

    J. Salmon F1 Rookie
    Owner

    Aug 27, 2005
    4,363
    VA
    #2 J. Salmon, Jul 28, 2008
    Karl, my first thought is that you should relocated your shop to Lynchburg VA :)

    Second, a letter from a lawyer may do the trick, but be prepared to back it up with the real thing. The trail of money is well documented. He knows he owes you, how he "feels" about it isn't going to stand for jack in court. Even if everything he owes you goes to the lawyers, it will be worth it on principle alone (or it would be to me).

    Most important: it is better to be honest and trusting and risk getting taken, vs. being an unscrupulous loser. I don't understand how people like that can live in that way, but I will admit most of them I have known have not been happy people.

    Go get 'em!
     
  3. RedlineG60

    RedlineG60 Formula 3

    Dec 25, 2003
    1,133
    Simpsonville, SC
    Full Name:
    Andy Thomason
    #3 RedlineG60, Jul 28, 2008
    wow. that sucks. let us know what comes of it, hopefully in your favor.
     
  4. DrStranglove

    DrStranglove FChat Assassin
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Oct 31, 2003
    29,156
    Google Maps
    Full Name:
    DrS
    #4 DrStranglove, Jul 29, 2008
    Likely a dead end but I would call the Ins company first. Tell them their customer has not payed you and see what they say. It may go nowhere but it may too. Keep us updated!
     
  5. sainthoo

    sainthoo Formula 3
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Jan 20, 2007
    1,887
    Full Name:
    Christian
    #5 sainthoo, Jul 29, 2008
    Simple, mechanics lien(sp?). He will not be able to sell the car / transfer title until you are satisfied. Put the lien in place, then tell him you will not remove it until paid in full. He is totally screwed. He can go to court to have it lifted, but you will of course have all the information documented nicely to help him lose the case (if he is dumb enough to try).

    Good luck.
     
  6. Irishman

    Irishman F1 Rookie

    Oct 13, 2005
    3,521
    Raleigh
    Full Name:
    Kevin
    #6 Irishman, Jul 29, 2008
    I would think it a straightforward matter in small claims court.

    Reminds me of a friend I ride motorcycles with who paints cars. About $40K in work on a Porsche. Then, nothing from the insurance company and the owner left the country. From then on no car left his shop until payment in full, check cleared, etc.

    Seamus
     
  7. ferraripete

    ferraripete F1 World Champ

    Nov 5, 2003
    11,560
    san diego/charlotte
    #7 ferraripete, Jul 29, 2008
    this is the first step...you will be able to document that the car was actually involved in a claim. i would then call the owner and let him know that you will be be filing a complaint for adjudication in a small claims court. then consider mentioning that you will look at submitting a CARFAX update citing damage and in turn...possibly warning future buyers and thus diminishing the cars value. he may respond to that in itself. as i say consider that.

    i suspect you will no doubt be made whole in small claims.

    good luck.

    pcb
     
  8. ferraripete

    ferraripete F1 World Champ

    Nov 5, 2003
    11,560
    san diego/charlotte
    #8 ferraripete, Jul 29, 2008
    this too!
     
  9. ProCoach

    ProCoach F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Sep 15, 2004
    5,465
    VIR Raceway
    Full Name:
    Peter Krause
    #9 ProCoach, Jul 29, 2008
    Bull$hit. Once the car is released to the customer, the shop owner has no leverage. In NC at least, can't file a lien on a car that is not in your possession.

    Karl, I'd get the meanest lawyer in town document everything and go to small claims court. It's on the edge ($5K or more gets kicked up) but I would make this guy's life hell legally until there is a resolution, one way or another.

    I don't think the insurance company gives a d@mn. Once paid, the claim is closed.

    Glad I'm out of this business, it only takes a few to take all the wind out your sails...
     
  10. ProCoach

    ProCoach F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Sep 15, 2004
    5,465
    VIR Raceway
    Full Name:
    Peter Krause
    #10 ProCoach, Jul 29, 2008
    Now, that's leverage. Go do it!
     
  11. Bill (NC)

    Bill (NC) Rookie

    Jun 16, 2007
    19
    NC
    #11 Bill (NC), Jul 29, 2008
    Don't waste money on a lawyer until you take him to small claims court, if he lives close by. (you have to sue in the county he lives in) The maximum $ value varies by state, I think in NC it is $5k. The judges are usually very fair and see through all the smoke and mirrors. I've been three different times and never lost (all slam dunks like yours). Let him know you're going to do it. He should know if he loses he will pay all the court cost. Maybe it will shake the money loose. :)
     
  12. Europeanroadandracing

    Europeanroadandracing South Carolina
    Professional Ferrari Technician

    Dec 19, 2003
    2,228
    Isle of Palms, SC
    Full Name:
    Karl Troy
    #12 Europeanroadandracing, Jul 29, 2008
    Thank you guys for all the input. Even though I have been in business for over 18yrs, I don't have much experience with this and I thank god for that.
    In 18+ yrs. I have been in court only once and the judge saw the truth and we were fine. I am proud of that trackrecord(more than my other trackrecords, lol)
    I finally spoke to the claimsrep. that handled the claim and he said that there was nothing he could do. The claim was closed. Later this afternoon I spoke a with the supervisor of that dept. and gave her all the facts, incl. that he wanted me to charge the add. repairs to them also until I refused. She said she would investigate the matter and call me tomorrow. I told her that I had the same documentation they had , that said
    " Make supplement payment payable to shop" and because of their mistake I now have to play bill collector.
    I also found out that the POS called them this morning and said " Beware, you may get a call from the shop that worked on my car and they may ask you to stop payment on the check. Don't believe anything he says"
    I swear, this is unreal. I will keep you guys updated.

    Thanks for everything.

    Karl
     
  13. ECTurboGSX

    ECTurboGSX Formula 3

    Dec 26, 2004
    1,074
    Bay Area, CA
    Full Name:
    Eric
    #13 ECTurboGSX, Jul 29, 2008
    Karl, we've got a truck over here that could run a Ferrari over if all else fails (or at least make the owner think we're about to run him over) ;)

    I hope this has a reasonable outcome. Unfortunately, I haven't met any lawyers down here to point you towards yet. Good luck.
     
  14. Juan-Manuel Fantango

    Juan-Manuel Fantango F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jan 18, 2004
    12,465
    Full Name:
    Juan
    #14 Juan-Manuel Fantango, Jul 29, 2008
    Let us know who he is and we will beat the kcuf out out of him....this really pisses me off. You are one of the few we can trust.
     
  15. L8Braker

    L8Braker Formula 3

    Nov 10, 2003
    1,567
    Asheville NC
    Full Name:
    Jeremy Stafford
    #15 L8Braker, Jul 29, 2008
    Get some of your local law enforcement buddies to pay a visit to his house.......
     
  16. gil308

    gil308 Formula 3

    Jun 22, 2004
    1,975
    Charleston, SC
    Full Name:
    Gil
    #16 gil308, Jul 29, 2008
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2008
    Karl, how I wish this were DoD related!!

    If you have documentation that says assignment of payment goes to you from the Insurance company, then they are responsible for their error. Insurance companies are in business to make money, so getting them to pay you and then go after their insured will be difficult ... BUT, that's the way is should be handled. If you do not get satisfaction from the person you spoke with, speak to their boss...keep going up the ladder. Bottom line is the crappy customer doesn't owe you money, the insurance company does. They cannot expect you to go after their client for their mistake.

    Small claims court may be an option...but I have no experience there.

    There must be a local FChat attorney who will do some pro bono work, or perhaps a customer? If I were an attorney, I would gladly take this on for you.

    Sorry this happened...they're not all going to be as good customers as me :)

    You can always file a complaint with the local Police...however, they may say this is a civil matter between you and the insurance company. IF the insurance company did not assign payment to you, THEN you would have a Theft of Services complaint. If you want to research the possibility of going to the North Charleston Police, let me know and I will get you a good point of contact...but I am going to be out of town for a while starting Sunday...so get to me asap if you want to go that route.
     
  17. Europeanroadandracing

    Europeanroadandracing South Carolina
    Professional Ferrari Technician

    Dec 19, 2003
    2,228
    Isle of Palms, SC
    Full Name:
    Karl Troy
    #17 Europeanroadandracing, Jul 30, 2008
    IF the insurance company did not assign payment to you, THEN you would have a Theft of Services complaint. If you want to research the possibility of going to the North Charleston Police, let me know and I will get you a good point of contact...but I am going to be out of town for a while starting Sunday...so get to me asap if you want to go that route.[/QUOTE]

    Thank you Gil. I hope to have some more answers today. If not, I will take you up on that offer. I just fixed a car for the North Charleston mayor. His wife is a judge. That could also be a possibility.

    Thanks
    Karl
     
  18. Crawler

    Crawler F1 Veteran

    Jul 2, 2006
    5,018
    #18 Crawler, Jul 30, 2008
    That guy needs a visit from Guido and Vito (and I'm not talking about Ferrari mechanics). What a sleaze! Good luck. Just in case you ever need character witnesses (as it now sounds as though this f*ckhead is resorting to slander), you can count me in.
    Dan
     
  19. Dincenzo

    Dincenzo Formula 3

    Oct 11, 2005
    2,423
    Columbia, SC
    Full Name:
    Adrian
    #19 Dincenzo, Jul 30, 2008
    Don't think that he can get your maney back, but sent your info to a friend (another Ferrari owner) that may be able to help. If nothing else, he could help you
    to expose the SOB to others before he tries anything like this again. If that doesn't work, I know of some Italian plumbers in South Jersey that could make him
    dissapear!
     
  20. Europeanroadandracing

    Europeanroadandracing South Carolina
    Professional Ferrari Technician

    Dec 19, 2003
    2,228
    Isle of Palms, SC
    Full Name:
    Karl Troy
    #20 Europeanroadandracing, Jul 30, 2008
    Thank you Dan.
     
  21. Europeanroadandracing

    Europeanroadandracing South Carolina
    Professional Ferrari Technician

    Dec 19, 2003
    2,228
    Isle of Palms, SC
    Full Name:
    Karl Troy
    #21 Europeanroadandracing, Jul 30, 2008
    Thank You Adrian.
     
  22. gil308

    gil308 Formula 3

    Jun 22, 2004
    1,975
    Charleston, SC
    Full Name:
    Gil
    #22 gil308, Jul 30, 2008
    Thank you Gil. I hope to have some more answers today. If not, I will take you up on that offer. I just fixed a car for the North Charleston mayor. His wife is a judge. That could also be a possibility.

    Thanks
    Karl[/QUOTE]

    Ok, I guess the Mayor and a judge are good contacts :) Just let me know.
     
  23. Europeanroadandracing

    Europeanroadandracing South Carolina
    Professional Ferrari Technician

    Dec 19, 2003
    2,228
    Isle of Palms, SC
    Full Name:
    Karl Troy
    #23 Europeanroadandracing, Jul 30, 2008
    Gil, I contacted the SC ins. commission today. I was told to print a form, fill it out and fax it over. Within a couple of hours the Ins. Co. would be notified of the matter. We'll see how they respond.
    Thanks
    Karl
     
  24. Europeanroadandracing

    Europeanroadandracing South Carolina
    Professional Ferrari Technician

    Dec 19, 2003
    2,228
    Isle of Palms, SC
    Full Name:
    Karl Troy
    #24 Europeanroadandracing, Jul 31, 2008
    Just before leaving the shop tonight, I received a call from the insurance commission. The lady set she couldn't guarantee anything but they have already put in several calls to the claimhandler. He has not returned any of them.
    She said they would do whatever they can to help.

    Karl
     
  25. gil308

    gil308 Formula 3

    Jun 22, 2004
    1,975
    Charleston, SC
    Full Name:
    Gil
    #25 gil308, Aug 1, 2008
    That was a great idea to call the SC Insurance Comission...I should have thought of that since I worked Insurance Fraud in NJ.

    It may take time, but IF the insurance company doesn't come through, you have shown that you have done all you could to rectify the situation. It will all look good in front of a judge.
     
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