News

No love for Triumph?

Discussion in 'British' started by Badman, Nov 10, 2010.

  1. rdefabri

    rdefabri Three Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 4, 2008
    30,914
    NJ
    Full Name:
    Rich
    I'd probably agree on the early Healeys. Don't get why many value those over the later models, especially given the improvements made over the life of them. For me, though, they look "right". I will say the TR3 is nice - that's the car my pops wanted.

    I wouldn't say everyone has an E-Type, just seems like it. I own a FHC, of which a fraction were made compared to a TR6.

    To each their own I suppose, but I always viewed the Triumphs more like MG - the English experience at a budget.
     
  2. Badman

    Badman Formula 3

    Mar 4, 2007
    1,114
    Gotham City
    Full Name:
    Bruce Wayne
    I'll agree with that, definitely. They were, and still are, "budget" sports cars. But that's not necessarily a bad thing ;)
     
  3. Badman

    Badman Formula 3

    Mar 4, 2007
    1,114
    Gotham City
    Full Name:
    Bruce Wayne
    Yeah, I know a lot of folks are very happy with that modification. I can't bring myself to do it though, just doesn't sound right!

    There's no handling finesse at all on the TR3, lol. The worm and tooth steering is especially abominable, but going round turns and having the live rear axle pop out from under me always makes me grin (and is much preferable to the Spit's swing axle pension to tuck under and want to spin :)
     
  4. nathandarby67

    nathandarby67 F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Feb 1, 2005
    8,289
    Mississippi
    Full Name:
    Nathan
    Well, I was trying to be kind, but your "no finesse at all" assessment is much more accurate! The steering on the car we drove was HEAVY, had zero road feel, and had no self-centering tendency. In other words, if you turned the wheel to go around a corner, you had to use just as much force to turn it back the other direction when the road straightened out. If you just loosened up your grip to let the wheel slide through your hands like you can on a normal car, it just sticks there wherever you turned it to, like cruise control for your steering wheel! I have always wondered if this was normal for the TR3 or if our cars steering box was in need of lubrication or something. I knew the steering was supposed to be "old fashioned" but I wasn't expecting what I got.

    But once you got used to its quirks it was a delightful car to drive, and experiencing all the quirks is what the enjoyment of these old cars comes from. If they all drove like new hondas what would be the point?
     
  5. nathandarby67

    nathandarby67 F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Feb 1, 2005
    8,289
    Mississippi
    Full Name:
    Nathan
    As someone who grew up on the "budget" side of English motoring, I would argue the opposite is closer to the truth....that Jaguars, Aston Martins, and such are the English experience with some refinement and luxury. After all, there were a lot more MGs/Triumphs made than their nicer, more expensive big brothers. I guess the argument is what is considered to be the original, true "English experience"? (Other than your Lucas fuel pump quitting when it is dark, cold, and raining and you are 40 miles from home.)
     
  6. Badman

    Badman Formula 3

    Mar 4, 2007
    1,114
    Gotham City
    Full Name:
    Bruce Wayne
    #31 Badman, Nov 14, 2010
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2010
    No, you had a functioning steering box, that's not normal. Normally, the wheel should jump around and swerve the car at unexpected times. ;-) But in all seriousness, yeah, that sounds about right. You have to push the car around the road. What's characteristic of a worn steering box is that the always present "dead spot" when the wheel is straight gets wider and wider, so that you can end up with about a 20 degree angle in the middle where the steering just won't respond. When it gets really bad, the tooth will jump out of the the groove randomly and you'll get the swerving behavior I described above. That's pretty terrifying. There's an tension adjustment screw on the top of the box, but that tends to simply make the steering too tight to be able to turn.

    A good number of folks have converted to rack and pinion steering, which fixes the problems, though often causes it's own issues with some of the poorly made conversion kits out there.
     
  7. nathandarby67

    nathandarby67 F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Feb 1, 2005
    8,289
    Mississippi
    Full Name:
    Nathan
    Interesting. We had a pretty big dead spot on-center, probably 10-15 degrees. I remember wondering if a rack and pinion conversion was possible. I wouldn't mind owning a TR3 one day, and think I might look at something like that if I ever bought one. It would be a tough decision for me though between original steering and a more modern setup. For me a lot of enjoyment of a sports car is in the steering feel. On the other hand, you have to be careful how much you modernize these old cars, because I fear at some point you can lose the character of the car if you "improve" it too much.

    The MG TC is another wonderful car with a reputation for terrible steering that I would like to own one day, and I have had the same mental dilemma when contemplating one of those. I believe the TD had rack and pinion steering so is supposed to have much better road feel, but I love the lines and purity of the TC. And again, if you go swapping in better parts how far can you go before you don't really have a TC/TR3 any more?
     
  8. Badman

    Badman Formula 3

    Mar 4, 2007
    1,114
    Gotham City
    Full Name:
    Bruce Wayne
    #33 Badman, Nov 14, 2010
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2010
    If you're not dead set on the body style/interior, the TR4 is basically the same car as the TR3 but has rack and pinion steering (and no, unfortunately, it's not an easy swap to put a TR4 rack in a TR3). There are a few other differences, but until the TR4A it isn't too far different.

    I'm right there with you. I'd love a T-series Midget. Lots of back and forth over which revision I want though.

    I'm fighting that question almost daily with my 308, which is all in pieces as I pretty much rebuild everything. How much of it do I upgrade and how much do I leave the same. I tend toward leaving things alone with any of my cars, unless it's a clear safety choice or a simple choice like better quality seals/gaskets/hose/etc.
     
  9. rdefabri

    rdefabri Three Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 4, 2008
    30,914
    NJ
    Full Name:
    Rich
    Interesting viewpoint - but since I cut my (baby) teeth on Dad's AH 3000, my impression of British motoring is the refinement - I think Rolls-Royce, Jaguar, Aston-Martin, etc.

    Granted, I probably wouldn't call the AH refined, but compared to my buddy's MG, it was aces.
     
  10. rdefabri

    rdefabri Three Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 4, 2008
    30,914
    NJ
    Full Name:
    Rich
    Indeed you are right. In my previous post, I referred to a buddy's MG - man we had some fun in that thing :)
     
  11. Tr4's had the rack & pinion steering. It was a big improvement over the TR3 in that area.
     
  12. nathandarby67

    nathandarby67 F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Feb 1, 2005
    8,289
    Mississippi
    Full Name:
    Nathan
    #37 nathandarby67, Nov 15, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    For me, TR4 isn't even in the same conversation at the TR3. Don't get me wrong, I think they are fantastic cars, but if I were going to get a "normal" bodied modern-ish Triumph, I would get the TR6. I like the TR2/3 precisely because they look and feel like they are from a different era.

    Although now you have got me thinking about those beautiful headlight lids and the little power bulge on the hood of the TR4! How much are those going for these days? Man, there are WAY too many cars out there I like.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  13. nathandarby67

    nathandarby67 F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Feb 1, 2005
    8,289
    Mississippi
    Full Name:
    Nathan
    #38 nathandarby67, Nov 15, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  14. What about a TR250?
     
  15. Badman

    Badman Formula 3

    Mar 4, 2007
    1,114
    Gotham City
    Full Name:
    Bruce Wayne
    #40 Badman, Nov 15, 2010
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2010
    Yeah, TR4 is a nice car, but forgotten between the TR3 and the TR6. $15K-$16K for a good example. Add $1K-$2K for a 4A with the IRS suspension.


    TR250 is a killer mix of the TR4 and the TR6. They're rare enough though that you really gotta search for one in good shape, and be ready to pay for it. A TR5 with fuel injection would be fun to play with, but since they were never imported, those are exceedingly rare in the US.

    I find the stags a bit ugly. I'd rather an 1800 or 2000 sedan if I was going big with a Triumph. The rover V8 in them also caused a ton of headache. A lot of folks switch it out for the Buick motor that's pretty darn close but much more reliable. Luckily, there's a core group who love the stags, so they're cared for.
     
  16. velocedog

    velocedog Karting

    Jun 6, 2007
    119
    Michigan
    Full Name:
    Jack
    #41 velocedog, Nov 15, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  17. Badman

    Badman Formula 3

    Mar 4, 2007
    1,114
    Gotham City
    Full Name:
    Bruce Wayne
    Beautiful shot, velocedog!
     
  18. velocedog

    velocedog Karting

    Jun 6, 2007
    119
    Michigan
    Full Name:
    Jack
    Thanks, fall colors and old British crocks just go well together in my opinion.
    I had gone for a fairly long drive looking for a good setting and was about a quarter of a mile from home when I saw this driveway. I'd like to say I skidded to a halt, but old British brakes really aren't that good......
     
  19. Wade

    Wade Three Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Mar 31, 2006
    30,121
    East Central, FL
    Full Name:
    Wade O.
    #44 Wade, Nov 22, 2010
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2010
    Actually, the Stag had a Triumph 3.0L V-8 and the Rover engine is the one to have. The latter is a derivative of the Buick/Olds/Pontiac V-8 from the early 60's. In addition, the Rover V-8 was the British hot rodders engine of choice throughout the 80's and early 90's.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rover_V8
    http://www.britishv8.org/Articles/Rover-Autocar-Article.htm
     
  20. open roads

    open roads F1 Rookie

    Jan 28, 2007
    3,755
    Sarasota, Fl.
    Full Name:
    Stan
    There's a TR-8 owner near here that I had a chance to talk to. Saw him go by recently and sounded quite good.

    Also saw a rather nice looking TR-3 on Sunday. I'd say that was the highlight of the drive, and we went to a Mustang/Shelby show.
     
  21. Badman

    Badman Formula 3

    Mar 4, 2007
    1,114
    Gotham City
    Full Name:
    Bruce Wayne
  22. PassTheSpanner

    PassTheSpanner Karting

    Nov 2, 2010
    210
    Central Iowa
    Full Name:
    Steve
    #47 PassTheSpanner, Nov 23, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  23. TooTall

    TooTall Karting

    Sep 15, 2006
    179
    So Cal
    Full Name:
    Kurt O.
    I have 4 of the bloody things! Well, actually 3 Triumphs and a rare variant called a Swallow Doretti. The Triumphs are a '54 long door TR2, a '57 TR3 and a '62 Sports 6 (US version of the Vitesse) convertible. None are running (surprise, surprise!) and some, as Len Frank used to say, "completely disassembled for your closer examination."

    Cheers,
    Kurt O.
     
  24. Badman

    Badman Formula 3

    Mar 4, 2007
    1,114
    Gotham City
    Full Name:
    Bruce Wayne
    You've got some sweet toys! I've never even seen a Swallow Doretti.
     
  25. atomicskiracer

    atomicskiracer Formula 3

    Mar 30, 2005
    1,590
    Virginia
    Full Name:
    Ryan
    We have a driver condition TR-6, its a blast on the country/mountain roads!!
     

Share This Page