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NGK Spark Plugs BP7ES (or BP6ES or BP8ES)

Discussion in '308/328' started by Andy 308GTB, May 29, 2012.

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  1. Andy 308GTB

    Andy 308GTB F1 Rookie
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    #1 Andy 308GTB, May 29, 2012
    My car (1980/81 GTB Carb'd) is currently running BP7ES and these appear to be the recommended NGK plug. But I'm getting a slight misfire when it is running fairly hot. (see this thread: http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=369716)

    Interestingly Superformance only sell the BP8ES plugs which (if my understanding is correct) are a 'cooler' plug and would withstand higher temperatures.

    I mention the BP6ES plug as I've also seen on Ferrari Life a thread where someone was looking to address a different issue by changing to these but this was seen as a drastic move.

    Who here can put me straight? Have my plugs deteriorated over time and I should simply buy a new set or are they the wrong ones?

    I was amazed to find I can get a full set of BP7ES delivered to my door for £10.36 (i.e US$ 16.00) - the joys of Ebay!
     
  2. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    #2 BigTex, May 29, 2012
    I would think it's something other than the plug itself...maybe cross talk in the wires???

    You are correct an "8" would be colder yet.

    But in my old bangers I run the BP5ES to keep them burned clean, to give you an idea (on the street) normally the (one range colder) plug would be for a long period of high RPM, like a Track Day.

    I have never heard of anyone going as cold as "8"....anyone?
     
  3. Steve King

    Steve King F1 Rookie

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    #3 Steve King, May 29, 2012
    I run BP5ES in mt 77 GTB. They are hot enough to keep clean and don't miss at high speeds. The set in there now was installed back in 2005 and still no problems. I also am running a Pertronix electronic ignition. Oh I've got about 15,000 miles on them.
     
  4. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    #4 BigTex, May 29, 2012
    Flooding the engine is the only thing to really kill a set, in mine.

    They don't like it, and rarely "start working" again.....

    Also getting water past the Well Seals (as mentioned above) is also a big no -no....

    .the other thing to look for might be a failed oil seal in the distributor itself.
    Rare, but it happens.
     
  5. Andy 308GTB

    Andy 308GTB F1 Rookie
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    #5 Andy 308GTB, May 29, 2012

    But this is the what Superformance offer (and I wouldn't normally argue with them):

    Spark Plug
    NGK
    Super copper core
    Replaces: Champion N6YC, N79Y; Bosch W225T30
    Replaces: 29322, 100604, 107603
    (308: GT4, GTB/S); (208: 1975 GT4)

    BP8ES
    £3.54
     
  6. FasterIsBetter

    FasterIsBetter F1 Veteran

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    #6 FasterIsBetter, May 29, 2012
    I ran BP6ES NGK plugs in my '78 308GTS, and they worked great. When I would check them, they were that nice tan color we all like to see, always stayed clean, never a fouling problem. YMMV, but I found those worked best for me. I have NGK Iridium plugs in my 328 and they are great.
     

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  7. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    #7 BigTex, May 29, 2012
    I can't argue with experts!

    Your car has the early electronic Dinoplex ignition???

    That might be the difference from my coil/points system??
     
  8. miketuason

    miketuason F1 World Champ
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    #8 miketuason, May 29, 2012
    Don't know who has these in their car nor how good they are but, Bosch has the Iridium plugs as well. I have NGK iridium BPR7EIX on my 84 QV now works like a charm. [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-oLGUE3hFE[/ame]
     
  9. Andy 308GTB

    Andy 308GTB F1 Rookie
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    #9 Andy 308GTB, May 29, 2012
    Yes, I'm sure you are correct -'Martin 308GTB' added this in my post in the Technical Section:
    "Andy; on your profile you say '80/81 GTB. Therefore it has no condenser with points, but the later electronic ignition system."

    The plugs are the cheapest thing to change so I will take this course.
    I've subsequently read a bit about plugs on the NGK website and will pull the whole lot and take a look at them - this should give me a better idea of how they have been running (hot/cold)
     
  10. Tostapchuk

    Tostapchuk Formula Junior

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    #10 Tostapchuk, May 30, 2012
    Funny. I just fouled out my plugs the other evening... I was having this exact same argument inside my brain! BPR6ES is what I've got in there now... And I'm thinking that's what we'll be sticking with, although none of the local parts shops seem to keep more than 6 in stock at any given time.
     
  11. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #11 Steve Magnusson, May 30, 2012
    If fouling is the symptom, you might try NGK BPR6EIX (as reduced fouling is one of the main advantages of the fine wire/exotic material design) -- made a huge difference in my ex-'78.

    Wonder if an NGK patent expired recently since that Bosch design is identical to the NGK and Bosch used to use a different style/construction for their exotic plug design.

    Detonation (pinging) would be the symptom for too hot a plug, not missing -- but never hurts to pull them out for a visual inspection (and once removed, I'd replace them anyway).
     
  12. FasterIsBetter

    FasterIsBetter F1 Veteran

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    #12 FasterIsBetter, May 30, 2012
    Steve,

    Maybe Bosch is having them made by NGK?
     
  13. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #13 Steve Magnusson, May 30, 2012
    Last edited: May 30, 2012
    That's a good thought, and it wouldn't surprise me if they were in kahoots -- having the "Bosch" name on a product has to be a plus in some markets...
     
  14. Crowndog

    Crowndog F1 Veteran

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    #14 Crowndog, May 30, 2012
    Love 'em
     
  15. 2dinos

    2dinos F1 Rookie

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    #15 2dinos, May 31, 2012
    FWIW: I used to use the NGK Pt plugs until one had the tip "boil" away while idling. Under the microscope, you could see tiny spheres of Pt metal on the ceramic insulator.

    Now I use the NGK 7EIX with really good results for street and track. I sometimes go with a fresh set of NGK BP5ES for a smog test, when you want to preclude any possibility of fouling/mis and HC going crazy.

    Also- on resistors:
    I've discovered too much resistors in system cause problems with external tach signals, ie using diagnostic tuning tools. Resistor wires + resistor plug extenders + resistor plugs = flaky tach pickup. Also, IIRC, the book doesn't call out resistor plugs.
     
  16. stefnews

    stefnews Karting

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    #16 stefnews, May 31, 2012
  17. Andy 308GTB

    Andy 308GTB F1 Rookie
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    #17 Andy 308GTB, Jun 5, 2012
    I pulled the plugs today.

    After hearing all the horror stories of how difficult removing the plugs from the front bank is, I was amazed how simple it was. I used the plug tool that came with the car - it's got a universal joint in the middle & it took me no more than 15 minutes to get the whole lot out.

    The plugs were BP7ES and all looked perfect, a light brown/grey deposit on the tips.

    I've got a set of BP6ES being sent to me - I'm now thinking that I might as well stick the BP7ES back in. (I ordered the 6's because I don't drive the car that hard - and I have read that they would be better in this instance...)

    I guess the next step is to change the HT Leads - Superformance sell these at a reasonable price (shame they are red - I'd prefer to stick with black)
     
  18. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    #18 BigTex, Jun 5, 2012
    There ya go!

    Good luck, Andy.
     
  19. Hans

    Hans F1 Veteran

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    #19 Hans, Jun 6, 2012
    Got 7ES's in mine. Driving it... well... yeah... hard. Trying to keep up with F430s, that kind of hard. No plug issues whatsoever.
     
  20. stefnews

    stefnews Karting

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    #20 stefnews, Jul 7, 2012
    Why you not believe me the BERU UX56 is the best, have anyone tested it ?
    When not, why not ?
    Everyone want sell the NGK, and everyone recommend only NGK, but nobody want spend a bit more for a testing.
    No understand.
    But I'm from another side the World ?
    I have UX79 in all my Mercedes V8 Classics, and UX56 in my '79 308 seven years ago.
    Stefan
     

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