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Next v12 coupe’

Discussion in 'FF/Lusso/F12/812S' started by leopoldo, Mar 22, 2021.

  1. leopoldo

    leopoldo Formula Junior

    Mar 10, 2013
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    I am sorry Marcel are you really sure in Italy is it possible to order the car ?
     
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  3. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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    Mar 2, 2005
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    You have asked this question several times already.
    Go to your local dealer and order a GTS.
    Where is the problem? All you need is some €.

    I don't know the specific situation in Italy but in other European countries it is not a problem.

    Marcel Massini
     
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  4. leopoldo

    leopoldo Formula Junior

    Mar 10, 2013
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    Ok thank you Mr Marcel
     
  5. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Rookie

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    There's a difference between a launch and start of production.
    From what I understand, 22 will see the launch of the F80, 812 successor and FUV.
    In 2022 the VS and last 812 GTS cars will roll off the line.

    Sent from my SM-G930F using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
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  6. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Rookie

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    There will not be a gap. The very last VS cars will probably hit the streets in 2023. If they start production of the 812 successor in November or so, it will be a regular transition. I'm sure we will be able to place our deposits and config our cars in the last half of 2022. Business as usual.

    Sent from my SM-G930F using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
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  8. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Rookie

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    I was a the dealer Monday, and that day they took two GTS orders while I was there.

    You will probably be able to config a GTS until August. Not sure what happens after the holiday, but for now, no problem.

    Is your dealer denying you an order?

    Sent from my SM-G930F using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
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  9. dcmetro

    dcmetro F1 Veteran

    Nov 27, 2007
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    Maybe you didn't understand me. VS cars are not regular V12 coupe. The GTO was produced along the GTB, same for the Tdf/F12

    During the last 60 years you could at any time order a flagship V12 coupe from Ferrari. During 3 years (2020 - 2023) or, at least, 2,5 years in the best case, you won't be able to do that. That is absolutely crazy.

    I mean a regular, simple coupe. Not an open top, not a VS.
     
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  10. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Rookie

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    There was also quite a gap between the F12 and 812 if you discount the TdF. When the 812 was first shown privately, the F12 order book had been close for quite some time, so I'm not really sure what you mean. You can still order the GTS, and that goes to at least the August holiday. The gap between 812 and 812 successor may be a few months longer than that of the F12 and 812, but I do think it was about 8-9 months or more. That Is probably what we will see between when the 812 GTS order books close and the order book for the successor opens. Maybe a little bit more, but not much. And seeing that there will be more 812VS cars than TdF, it makes sense. On top of that the LB is launched, the SF90 Spider will have to enter production etc. There are more cars now in the lineup and in the pipeline, so it is perfectly understandable if things change a bit. All in all it's not a massive change.
     
  11. JTSE30

    JTSE30 Formula 3
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    In the USA I was offered an F12 allocation in March 2017, the 812 reveal was in February 2017...and there were other F12 allocations available until at least June 2017...so no "gap" at all...at least in USA
     
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  13. 9nb

    9nb Formula Junior

    Sep 1, 2012
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    I’m just thinking out loud, there are several possible options for the 812 successor:
    1. N/A V12 front mid-engine without electrification (doubtful)
    2. N/A V12 FME with some hybrid (possible)
    3. Turbo V12 FME with/without hybrid (I don’t think it’ll happen because Ferrari had already commented that a turbo V12 doesn’t make sense to them.
    4. TT V8 hybrid FME (think Roma styling with SF90 powertrain, I think this is most likely)

    Anyone have any other ideas for this model? Or better yet some insider knowledge...
     
  14. JTSE30

    JTSE30 Formula 3
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    or, no replacement at all...
     
  15. 9nb

    9nb Formula Junior

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    Errr... perish the thought!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  16. Solid State

    Solid State F1 Veteran
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    Indeed. F12 was still sought after 812 reveal.
     
  17. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Rookie

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    Okay, I stand corrected then. That's just what I recalled.
     
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  18. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Rookie

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    The front engined two seater is a main stable of Ferrari. Losing that is like losing the Cavalino Rampante. Will it be V12? Perhaps. I think they will go far to keep it. They know it's important.
     
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  19. JTSE30

    JTSE30 Formula 3
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    I believe there is a great deal of uncertainty regarding the continuation of the V12 in regular production, I know the FUV is rumored to include, maybe that will take the place of the 812...not a Sports series I know.

    The SF90 was presented as the new 'flagship'
    https://www.topgear.com/car-reviews/ferrari/sf90-stradale
    Depending on how you see Ferrari, the SF90 is potentially controversial. It’s the firm’s new flagship, but isn’t powered by a seminal V12.

    https://www.motortrend.com/news/2021-ferrari-sf90-technical-first-look-pictures/
    The SF90 is the first flagship Ferrari since the F40 not to have a V-12 engine.

    And, I look at the rush to force the 812 to be a "spider", it was never designed to be one, the 812GTS design shows it was rushed (from the back quarter glass 'treatment' to the multiple cuts in the roof, etc.). I think the factory did that knowing that may be their last opportunity to create such a car with a V12 so they put together the best design they could in limited time. And, good for them, nothing wrong with that at all, just gives me extra reason to believe the V12 future is uncertain at best.
     
  20. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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    They MUST downsize (by law). They have no choice.
    Former flagship V12's will now be V8's (SF90, etc.), V8's will become V6, etc.
    Just wait two months for the new V6 (a.k.a. LB).

    Marcel Massini
     
  21. jpalmito

    jpalmito F1 Rookie

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    No future for V12 then ?
     
  22. JTSE30

    JTSE30 Formula 3
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    Unclear, but, if they create a downsized V12, maybe under 4L, but given that the presumed V12 replacement would of been after a 5 year run (of the 812) meaning (probably) a 2023 model year start, and with Euro 7 uncertainties it might not make any sense at all, or it might be feasible...as it would likely apply starting calendar year 2025...

    Apparently there are (3) different Euro 7 proposals, with two being impossible, the other, possible...
    https://www.motorious.com/articles/features-3/eu-government-coming-for-cars/
    There is a glimmer of hope since the EU government is looking at 3 different approaches for Euro 7. The first and most sane pathway would do a light revision to Euro 6. The second involves more aggressive revisions, including a tightening up standards for CO2 and NOx limits. It would also involve new tests and limits on “non-CO2 greenhouse gas emissions.”
    Option 3, which sounds full-on crazy controlling, means all cars undergo “real-world emission monitoring over the entire lifetime” of the car.

    Some, like VW, are planning for the worst possible outcome:
    https://www.electrive.com/2021/03/22/vw-brand-joins-audi-in-ending-combustion-engine-development/
    https://robbreport.com/motors/cars/audi-no-more-internal-combustion-engines-1234602040/

    some, like BMW, are treading carefully:
    https://www.motorious.com/articles/news/bmw-internal-combustion-engines/
     
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  23. italiafan

    italiafan F1 World Champ

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    By law?
    You mean “an agreed upon self-imposed rule” by a bunch of __________ (blank to prevent getting banned).
    Makes me sick.
    Also, makes me sick that everyone always invokes the invisible “them” that are doing it.
    Like lambs...leading themselves to slaughter.
     
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  24. dcmetro

    dcmetro F1 Veteran

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    Well said sir !! [Applause]
     
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  25. nickorette

    nickorette Karting
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    I predict a downsized hybrid front mid engined V12 with SF90/Roma style interior
     
  26. Lukeylikey

    Lukeylikey Formula 3
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    No point discussing the merits of it. None of us, including Ferrari, are influencing that. Only relevant what the regulations will be and how individual brands negotiate them.
     
  27. red passion

    red passion Formula Junior

    Mar 4, 2012
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    I just think the V12 will serve a different role in future. It will not be the flagship (performance-wise) anymore but rather Ferrari's kind of GT3.
     
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  28. F2003-GA

    F2003-GA F1 World Champ
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    So basically one cannot effectively have a future plan for V12's until Euro 7 is finalized or a small volume waiver is granted
     

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