Good afternoon, I hope this message finds everyone well. I am writing to seek your thoughts on a running hot issue on my 1991 Mondial T. The car has had a full service, all belts, water pump, thermostat, new cap, etc. when the engine out service was performed. The car runs hotter than it should and will spit out coolant if driven in light traffic in as little as 20 minutes. All work has been performed by qualified Ferrari service professionals. They have bled and re-bled the system. We finally decided to pull the radiator and, as it is the original radiator, has internal corrosion. You can see and feel "gunk" clogging the passages. The shop doing the work is proposing to have the radiator re-cored. I would think the better option is a new OE radiator, or is there a direct replacement upgraded radiator, such as an aluminum "racing" type radiator. I want this car to finally run cool or as designed. I am in South Texas, so our summer temps are easily 95-105F. Also the shop and I have discussed installing a 180F thermostatic switch on the radiator that controls the fans to kick them on sooner, similar to Birdman's recommendation on his 308/Mondial page. The fans have been confirmed to be operating correctly. Any thoughts are greatly appreciated.
I would go for a new radiator if you can source a new OEM one out, but a recore will do if a new rad is unavailable and is the faster option. I think Nick Forza has those aluminum rads for the 308/328, not sure if they fit the Mondial tho I also replaced my thermo switch under the radiator and added a bypass switch which routes to a switch under the steering wheel. Now I can turn on and off the fans myself as they do go on automatically at 195 degrees, and in hot weather sometimes just keeping them on works best. you might have had air in the system, you have to bleed often to get it right sometimes... keep us updated!
A correctly recored radiator will work just as efficiently as an OEM model, and then there is the consideration of price. If money is no object, sourcing and paying for an OEM will be possible, but expensive. A quality recore should be available for a few hundred dollars, versus considerably more for a new Ferrari piece. I believe the aluminum rads from Nicks are around $1200, and look to be a work of art in construction, but whether or not they fit a Mondial is to be determined. Originality goes out the window with these units, but functionality probably goes up a notch or two if they can be fitted.
Looking on e bay in the uk i came across a Nissan radiator pt no 640690. Also fits an audi 80. Same as the unit for a mon T ??
Thanks, for the ideas. I had seen the radiator by Nicks, and have sent an email asking if they make a unit for the Mondial T. Also, found this online that appears to be a direct fit replacement. They appear to be well made www.wizardcooling.com/part-finder/italian-cars/ferrari Thanks. I saw the parts made by Nick, and sent an email asking if they made a direct replacement for the Mondial T. Up until now the system had been bled multiple times. After seeing the removed radiator from the car, I am fairly convinced it is the culprit. Do you have any knowledge about parts made by Wizard Cooling? They appear to be of high quality and make a direct fit replacement. www.wizardcooling.com/part-finder/italian-cars/ferrari/mondial
Water pump is only a few months old and the car has been driven very little due to the running hot issue. Full engine out service done November 2020
Thanks for your reply. Any knowledge about the radiators made by Wizard Cooling? They look to be a high quality direct fit part. www.wizardcooling.com/part-finder/italian-cars/ferrari/mondial
Its a bit far away from me to know. I would find someone to re core your original, i had a rad reconditioned on my Toyota, lasted 18 years when i sold the car. Be sure to run a chemical flush through the system before you fit the new one
First check that your water lines have not been switched, as mine were, after a service. Water pumping the wrong way through the system will cause overheating.
I am not knowledgeable on the Winters rad, but it looks similar to the NFF unit. May even be the same supplier. I would listen to the guys you are paying to work on your car and recore what you have. In the long run, I think its the best solution all around. If my car had the same issues, its what I would do.
I was told by the shop that they are going to flush with a chemical cleaner before re-cored radiator is installed.
Thanks for this point, i would think that would be a fairly obvious issue, at least to a professional, reputable Ferrari mechanic and shop, but I will be sure to mention this to them.
Thanks for your thoughts. We are going with a re-core. I was told by the shop that is doing the work that new core/internals are German made and will be noticeably more efficient than the original radiator. I hope they are right. I am told the advice to re-core and the shop that is being used to re-core came by the advisement of someone at Ferrari NA service. They shop doing the work has ties to FNA, so I'm hoping this finally clears up the issue and I can drive my car.
Quick update, we are going to have the original radiator re-cored. I am told the new core will provide a noticeable upgrade in cooling efficiency, comaared to the original. Certainly I should notice a difference since the original is clogged. As for the bypass switch for fans, the shop doing the work said they consulted a contact of theirs with Ferrari North America and their opinion was with the re-cored radiator, it is best to leave the system as close to original as possible, so no bypass switch. I was proposing to install the 180F thermostatic switch on the radiator as recommended by Birdman on his 308/Mondial page. This would kick the fans on earlier and 180F instead of 195F. The contact at FNA stated the car really prefers to run at the 195F temperature range. I am looking at this from safety margin issue as it gets hot in Texas and I want to confidently drive this car at any time. Any thoughts on the thermostatic switch being changed to 180F?
Having the fans kick in earlier will not ultimately make your engine run cooler - it will only delay the warm-up time. The running temp is largely determined by the systems capacity to exchange heat. Having one or two fans will change that capacity when you drive slowly or sit in a jam - not when they kick in (as long as they kick in before the coolant boils) since it doesn't change system capacity. Hongkong is pretty hot and humid in summer and my car will get uncomfortably hot with 1 fan only. With 2 fans working, its rock-steady at the lower end of the operating range during normal use. Clearly no need for an "upgrade" to a functioning stock system.
I drive in central Florida, so its plenty toasty here. The only time the temp gauge gets near 195 is if I'm stuck in traffic. Once it does, the dual fans kick on and the gauge drops noticeably.
The Wizard looks correct except it has no fan mounting studs, there woud be four on the top and bottom tanks sticking out. It should look more like this, this is their 328 fitment with different body mounting brackets. https://wizardcooling.com/1985-1989-ferrari-328-custom-aluminum-radiator/ I am sure recored ones are fine, but frankly going with all aluminum eliminates the brass and old solder issues sometimes associated with new coolants that many are using. Painting an alloy on black would look stock enough if that was desired. I just replaced mine with good used on, and may recore my original to have a spare. But the all new full Al ones look like good bets, and frankly concours stock OEM fitments for Mondials seems overkill given the limited collectible nature of these cars, and you could just keep the old one for long term reversion to stock if that ever became important.
I am re-coring mine right now. As others have said, re-coring will work just as well as getting a new one and keeps the original part in your car. Also, finding an OEM one is costly, and more importantly takes one more old part off the shelf in case someone really needs one someday (say to repair their car in the even of an accident or something). Since re-coring works just as well I prefer to leave the NOS/OEM radiators for those who really need them.
