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Discussion in '458 Italia/488/F8' started by ajr550, Feb 28, 2019.
I might be dead by then. I’ve been told that mine should arrive in September.
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I really hope not.
Even if 765 follows a downward path by rights it would still retain far greater value and attraction to the enthusiast than either BB or LB which in 4 - 5 years time may become so outdated in tech they may only be of scrap value if of any interest at all. The other real dilemma is these are Ferrari's first hybrids and others are well beyond hybrid and into full electric with years of hybrid experience under their belts. So just because it may be an amazing Quantum leap for Ferrari - who up until Sf90 was clearly light years behind all the others in electronics and tech - probably doesn't mean a great deal to the others I suspect - just Ferrari
Also I read only a few days back the SF90 - even though officially released last year - is still being quoted as a "work in progress". Not sure if that's a good sign or a bad sign. Or is it just an indication there are still a lot of bugs in the system to resolve? Seems odd to release and take orders for a car that's still a work in progress. I'm also not sure if trying to beat a 765 on a circuit is going end well for Sf90 given 765 is basically a track focused hypercar. SF90 clearly looks very much like a Autobahn type super cruiser to me....not a track focused car.
Was just making the point that I personally don’t have enough self control to wait that long. In any case, the SF will certainly launch harder than the LT due to hybrid torque and AWD, but it may be a reasonably close race from a 60 km/hr roll.
I think it stands to reason it will launch harder with the awd - bit like Porsches latest 992tts. Not too many cars will be able to touch that off a dig and this is where sf90 will be able to hold its own. But around a circuit it's out of its comfort zone in the company of lighter less powerful cars.
"The front motors disengage at speeds of more than 130mph, but that doesn’t result in a drop in output; instead, the 8kWh lithium ion battery’s peak 162kW of current flow is sent entirely to the rear motor."
The first reviews are raving, speaking of amazing performance and handling.
Is McLaren going to let the 765LT be faster than a Senna (an actual track focused 'hypercar')? I doubt it. (Different price points)
The SF90 is to a 720S as a Pista is to the 765LT.
Here you have some explenation
The main problem is the smal 7.9khw batterie
(half of the size of the porsche hybrid cayenne/panamera). Wich is unable to give enough electricite the elec motors for full boost.
2x 85kw front motors 1x150kw motor in the driver train. If you add all those max output together you would probabl have a theoretical output of 1100hp with combustion engine together, but this is not the case as the batterie is to small and weak. Why because otherwise the car would gez heavier and heavier.
One some track with less aero demand it is faster, thats what i was been told during the Woking presentation. Of course not on high downforce track. Not to forget the 765lt is the first Mclaren having a 15% shortet final drive, resulting in harder in geat aceleration even if compaired to the senna down in Power by 35hp..
So I’ve been reading the battles on this thread about how the little brother will measure up.
I think we are forgetting one very important consideration.
The little brother is going to grow up.
Care to emphasize what you mean by “grow up”?
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I was just making a joke
Lol, apologizes, tone is hard to read on forums!
in order for them to be bought used some ppl have to buy new so I thank you.
While I turned down my 765 allocation, I will most certainly buy it used. I can’t justify the 250k premium over my current 720. Can add a lot of cars for that delta to the garage.
anxiously awaiting little brother release as I’ve expressed interest to my dealer in the car.
Ok so I think I have figured out the new order.
The big brother is the SF 90 V8 Turbo hybrid
The little brother is the V6 turbo hybrid
The F8 is the other brother who moved away from the family and is not longer going to have any offspring.
regarding the little brother, I’ll bet that Ferrari will draw from their F1 experience to help sell the car. That V6 has a 90 degree bank angle and a flat crank. So I predict the same for the little brother
Disc placement ? I’ll predict no more than 3.6 liters.
Performance will be better than the F8 but not by much.
Who wants to wait 4-5 years . It can be had today for 40% less than a SF90 at MSRP. A "pure" car with driver focus rather than a 1800kg car with 300kgs of tech that has not been proven ito reliability etc.
Hope to drive the SF90 in a few months so will be interesting to see none the less
Why not by much?
Absolutely new platform, new engine, EV components
It will be blast of performance.
Like 430–>458, and 599–>F12
PS SF90 it’s Ferrari’s 911 Turbo (and turbo S with AF), heavy, useful, very fast. But it isn’t gt3.
If the 765 is a limited number car
Again I’ll say a F8 Speciale with the 4liter SF90 engine
Your second paragraph. First, is Ferrari benchmarking the 765LT, or is it people on here that are doing it? Because one should look at the SF90 as a V8 hybrid Testarossa (even the Assetto Fiorano version), a comfortable sporty mid engined GT, or as a Porsche 911 Turbo S. Agreed with you that the SF90 is more Autobahn cruiser. It’s comparable to the Mclaren GT.
I would say most people (and buyers) have an automatic tendency to benchmark a particular cars performance for all others to measure up to and times such 0 to 100 and the likes become the easiest yardstick to claim superiority - as have track times to a certain degree where cars claim power superiority. But we all know there is more to it than just a fast lap or two before other factors come into play .
765 has a very favorable power to weight ratio so whilst it may be unable to produce a superior 0 to 100 time vs SF90, in the right environment (such as circuit) it would be more in its element to take down SF90 due to the significant weight and, huge power required to shift all that weight so to remain competitive.
Then of course there is the reliability and durability factor of a simpler car vs a highly complex car dependent upon the reliability of electronics and the workings of all other components which can break under the stress and forces which increase along with the weight. The more weight and power the stronger everything has to be and that in itself means more weight again so it becomes an ever increasing circle rather than a decreasing circle. And, we all know Ferrari's track record in electronics hasn't exactly been ideal either....that's putting it kindly.
There of course other issues present, and don't go away, such as tire and brake wear when placed under circuit conditions. So even if Sf90 can manage to produce a fast lap to impress the time pundits its unlikely to prove a good circuit car for obvious reasons being so heavy and with so much power to counter that. I foresee it as being King of the Autobahn rather than King of the Ring....or any race track which requires more than just a few laps to prove a point.
The price of the new little brother relative to
the big brother will indicate the performance.
I think we can all agree that the little brother with it’s smaller V6 will be priced significantly less than the SF90.
The new platform for the little brother is probably as others have said, due to the new demands of the hybrid platform. I don’t think Ferrari will be doing a carbon tub, so the little brother won’t be lightweight.
What do you think is going to happen to the other V8s? Will they be replaced by V6 hybrids too?
I predict the V8 Lusso will end with the arrival of the SUV.
My prediction based on nothing more than just speculation. Little Brother:
1 -3500 pounds
3- 295k base price
4- 350k minimum decent spec
5- 375k well equipped.
I think even less than that: 3.6 is too close to 3.9/4.0...
but they need enough juice to compete with 765...(if they even care of course)
Really doubt the car will be able to put all the horses to the ground properly..