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New battery choice

Discussion in '456/550/575' started by ferraridriver, Jun 1, 2016.

  1. 308 GTB

    308 GTB F1 Veteran
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    Barry Wolinsky
    #51 308 GTB, Jun 9, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Hi Dave,

    That was an old picture of the Braille battery taken in 2010. I replaced the heat shield about a year later which went missing long before I bought the car. My 550's previous owner doesn't remember the car having a heat shield so it disappeared prior to 2001 when he purchased the car from its original owner.

    Early 550s did not come with the shield. Beginning with Assembly Number 24713 they did.

    You can also see that I have a Schumacher SE-1-12S battery tender installed.

    Barry

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  2. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob F1 World Champ
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    Aug 10, 2002
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    Caution on LI batteries. Google thermal runaway. I think this may still be a problem. Racers love light LI batteries. So far I have seen 3 racecar fires or smoldering meltdown caught trackside.
     
  3. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Jul 19, 2008
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    Terry H Phillips
    FBB- They are still too expensive just for use on a street Ferrari. Braille's batteries that would work for Ferraris run $1600-2600.
     
  4. rugby

    rugby Formula Junior

    Apr 10, 2015
    364
    Atlanta
    That’s an interesting response. But why the hostility? Why do you have a feeling going down “that” (?) route would be a waste of time?

    I am really glad you have a degree in chemistry, but frankly I wasn’t looking for academic credentials. Instead, I would have preferred some actual answers to the questions I raised in my post. Perhaps even an adult discussion?

    Since you do have training in a related field, I am disappointed that you are dismissive of my concerns. In my opinion, anyone considering using lithium should be aware of the issues that may arise from such an install. As a service to the community, it would be helpful to refrain from telling people that lithium batteries are OK to use in cars simply because they also happen to be 12 volt.

    However, I get it, there is no real interest in this group to discuss this topic. I understand. You win some, you lose some. It was worth a try. :)
     
  5. ferraridriver

    ferraridriver F1 Rookie
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    Dave
    #55 ferraridriver, Jun 11, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I'm finally finished with my battery installation, Got the proper red Positive terminal protector, factory OEM. ;) Only about $35.00 :eek:

    The new Interstate battery tender junior, which Interstate says is compatible with AGM, is hooked up and ready to charge for longer than 80 hours which now makes me officially a scofflaw in California. :eek:

    As for the header tank, the wire across the heat shield, and that number 6 on what looks like a spark plug lead remember this is a Skunkworks edition 550. :)
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    308 GTB and F456M like this.
  6. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Rugby- You got it. Maybe some of the V8 guys are interested.
     
  7. wbklink

    wbklink F1 Rookie

    Sep 2, 2009
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    Bill Karp
    Hey Barry, my assembly number starts with 29xxx and I didn't get one with the car, I don't think either of the other two owners would have removed it probably one of the dealers just didn't put it back.

    Both the previous owners were like me.... wouldn't think of working on the car, so they wouldn't notice it was missing probably never even looked under the hood... At least I can say I have :)
     
  8. wbklink

    wbklink F1 Rookie

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    I like the positive terminal protector Dave.
    Very cool
     
  9. ferraridriver

    ferraridriver F1 Rookie
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    I just found out something I never realized before. I actually read the instructions, something I rarely do, for the new Battery Tender and discovered this.

    From Interstate:

    If a 12 Volt, Lead-Acid battery has an output voltage of less than 9 volts when
    it is at rest, when it is neither being charged nor supplying electrical current to
    an external load, there is a good chance that the battery is defective. As a
    frame of reference, a fully charged 12-Volt, Lead-Acid battery will have a rest state,
    no-load voltage of approximately 12.9 volts. A fully discharged 12-Volt,
    Lead-Acid battery will have a rest-state, no-load voltage of approximately 11.4
    volts. That means that a voltage change of only 1.5 volts represents the full
    range of charge 0% to 100% on a 12-Volt, Lead-Acid battery.
    Depending on
    the manufacturer, and the age of the battery, the specific voltages will vary by
    a few tenths of a volt, but the 1.5-volt range will still be a good indicator of the
    battery charge %
     
  10. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Dave- That applies to normal lead-acid batteries, but not to the AGM battery you have. They are still lead-acid, but the liquid is all absorbed in the glass mats. AGM batteries can be much more deeply discharged than a lead-acid battery and still live.

    12 volt batteries are actually 14 volt batteries (you do not get the full 14 volts) and for aviation use a typical system would be a 28 volt system.
     
  11. ferraridriver

    ferraridriver F1 Rookie
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    Terry, I'm not sure I agree with that. While the construction is different the chemistry is the same. It's still a lead-acid battery

    My testing of the tender and reading voltages compared to the LED color on the Tender seem to bear out Interstate's statement.

    In any case I have queried Interstate and will let you know their response.
     
  12. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Dave- AGM batteries in blowers, etc can be really deeply discharged, but I am not aware of actual minimum levels. They just stop working, so I will be interested to hear what they say.
     
  13. wbklink

    wbklink F1 Rookie

    Sep 2, 2009
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    Bill Karp
    Hi guys so I'm at the Ferrari dealer in Las Vegas and the consensus of opinion is I should put the AGM in they told me that's all Ferrari is using now!
    The Auto Gallery told me there would be no problem replacing the one they just put in with AGM
    Any opinions from you guys would be greatly appreciated !
    Thank you
    Bill
     
  14. wbklink

    wbklink F1 Rookie

    Sep 2, 2009
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    Bill Karp
    Hey Dave I have a question for you if I do switch to the a AGM will I still be able to use my battery tender plus that I've been using for the past several years
    Thanks Bill
     
  15. ferraridriver

    ferraridriver F1 Rookie
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  16. wbklink

    wbklink F1 Rookie

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    Hey Dave I just called Deltran about the battery tender plus using it on a AGM and they said it would be no problem whatsoever so I have the answer to my question thank you buddy
     
  17. wbklink

    wbklink F1 Rookie

    Sep 2, 2009
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    Bill Karp
    Hi Dave I bought this 25 foot extension cord when I bought my battery tender it works great it's made by Deltran

    Battery Tender 081-0148-25 25' Quick Disconnect Extension Cable


    Price: $14
    Ships from and sold by Amazon.com.
     
  18. moysiuan

    moysiuan Formula 3
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    Andy
    AGM are becoming popular with many new cars having the stop start feature, so the OEM's must have determined the AGM technology has advantage for such an application. They also are sealed and do not corrode the battery area like conventional lead acid batteries tend to. As to absolute performance, regular lead acid is still pretty darn good technology for the actual starting purposes. And all batteries whatever the technology have a failure rate that is fairly high, hence all the warranty emphasis often advertised. Buying AGM does not mean a better or more reliable battery by many measures.

    The Oddyssey batteries with the pure lead internals are probably among the best engineered out there, or other batteries that use pure lead, such as Northstar. There are no doubt others, most US batteries are made by about three main manufacturers and sold under many brands.

    Some battery tenders have a switch to specify AGM verses regular flooded lead acid batteries, so there must be some sort of difference in optimal charging, but I am not sure what the difference would be, perhaps the speed of taking a charge is different with each battery type?
     
  19. rugby

    rugby Formula Junior

    Apr 10, 2015
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  20. rugby

    rugby Formula Junior

    Apr 10, 2015
    364
    Atlanta
    AGM's will charge faster than floodeds (they have lower internal impedance and higher acceptance rate), but that does not make much difference to the charger.

    AGM's do not like to be equalized (or "rejuvenated" as some vendors call it). Equalizing is done by applying a very high voltage to the battery for a limited amount of time. This is supposed to knock off the sulphate crystal off the lead plates. This voltage can be as high as 15.7 volts and is called the "gassing" voltage. Basically, at that voltage the water in the battery electrolyte decomposes and releases hydrogen.

    With a flooded cell, this lost electrolyte water can be replenished, but if an AGM is ever allowed to boil like that, the water loss is permanent and the capacity of the battery is substantially diminished.

    So when buying a charger for an AGM battery, it is good to confirm that the maximum voltage ever applied to the battery will be below this gassing limit. If a charger has the AGM switch, this is most likely what it does.
     
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  21. moysiuan

    moysiuan Formula 3
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    Interesting, thanks for the technical information on charging.
     
  22. 4th_gear

    4th_gear F1 Rookie
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    #72 4th_gear, Jun 16, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Looks like there's quite a bit of interest in AGM battery replacements for the older V12s. Here is a page out of the latest Interstate battery replacement chart as of about a month ago.
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  23. 4th_gear

    4th_gear F1 Rookie
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    #73 4th_gear, Jun 16, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  24. mxstav@comcast.net

    Nov 24, 2005
    154
    Green Oaks, IL
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    Mark Stavropoulos
    I just put one of these in my 456 based on the advice from this august body. The only trouble I have is the clamp won't hold it. It is as if the lip on the bottom of the battery is too thin, the clamp bottoms out before it contacts the battery. Has anyone else had this problem? Any good solutions?

    Thanks!
     
  25. bill59

    bill59 Karting
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    Oct 26, 2010
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    bean town
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    bill h
    Would someone recommend a tender I can mount in the car. I park in a public garage so, with access to power, I still want my hood closed. Thanks
     

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