New 1981 400i owner with a problem.

I don't know about fixing your hot-start problem, but the item surely works.

Got this item installed in #44121. Worked out well other than having to clock the face plate for proper fit, and then grind one of the bosses for clearance. Strangely when i installed the same vendor's item in an e-type, i had none of these aforementioned inconveniences. Ultimately, it'll make future servicing much easier.

 

I don't get it...why would moving the car slightly when in gear do anything? If I missed the post explaining this, sorry...it's late

 

welcome to this group. very nice looking car, good color and a rear five speed. wish you many good drives. sounds as if a few kinks need working out. some very smart owners on this site, battle worn though they may be

 

Glad to hear that the new starter fixed the problem. Sometimes you have to go down a few paths before you find the solution to the problem.

John

 

I just bought a 1982 400i that looks and runns great but is sometimes doesn's start when warm because of driving. The enginge turns so it is not the starter engine bus something else. If I checkt the sparks the work when turning arround so Ithink it has to do something with the petrol. maybe viporing befor coming into the cilinder or a automatic chocke that hangs? does anyone now this problem?

Thanks

Carel

 

Hi, encountered the same situation. The car was very very difficult to start when the engine was hot. There are some posts about it. In my case, fchat member Dave has given the solution : within the relay box (passenger side, under the carpet), a relay that is twice the size of the other ones was unplugged. Just open the box and check out : re-plug the relay can be the solution.
Copyright belongs to Dave !
Olivier

 

I could never figure out how this could happen w/FI.

It appears that the Series 1 car has an additional 'start valves' relay that Ferrari coins 'intermittence' (#25) that is absent in the Series 2 & beyond models. I don't know the purpose of relay #25 but I can only hope that the subsuquent models were upgraded by deleting this item. BTW, I think the 'start valves' are just that, they assist in starting @ all temps. but I have found they work best @ cold.

Ferrari advises in the OM's that "it might be useful for very hot engines to slightly press on the accelerator pedal." They also advise to return the ignition key back to position '0' before another attempt to start the engine. I believe the one reason behind this is to re-engage the start valves. Peter of ForzaMS advised me that "starting the car, the Ferrari fuel injection system works well, sometimes starting them requires you hold the throttle down some, I think they set this up to give it the feeling of a carb car, not all examples are like this, you have to learn the feel of the car, please remember that this is a largely hand-built car from a very tiny manufacturer. These cars are almost organic in nature so they behave differently than other cars."
I must add, Be Patient! Learn the feel of the car..
I would also like to add that I'm away from home for extended periods at times (2-3 mo.) & some advocate that you can't let these sit around but everytime I come home, it never takes me more than 3 sec. of cranking w/2 attempts combined(w/ orig 'slow' starter & OEM Marrelli ign. mod. replacement on 9/87) & those 12 cyl's. fire up every time. I literally took me a couple of months of trying different approaches & this is what worked best for me:
Cold Start (w/freq. use):
Crank engine for 1.5-2 sec. but no more than 2 sec., & w/ no throttle. And above all, don't lay on the starter. I think this is what kills kills them. Return the ign. key back to '0' position & wait 4-5 sec. for fuel to vapor. The engine should fire on the 2nd attempt w/less than 1 sec. of cranking (again w/no throttle) & immediately after starting, I slightly nudge the throttle.
Hot Start:
Follow above advise (slight derpression of accel. pedal) but if the R's rip past 2g's, it's too heavy on the blip. I always try to put it @ 1500rpm start.
Cold Start (after extended storage):
Follow the above cold start procedure w/the exception of the 2nd attempt. I use the 'hot start' proc. @ this juncture.

Also noticed while digging thru service records that the fuel pump check valves were replaced on 4/92 to correct the hard start problem.

Any info you care to share w/us.....mileage, chassis #, 5 sp or auto., color, any known history to you, etc.?

 

What, no profile?? Filling it out helps others help you.

For anyone who doesn't want to be 100% dependant on the mechanic to fix every little problem under the hood, & your car is injected, I recommend "How to Understand, Service and Modify Bosch Fuel Injection & Engine Management" by Charles O. Probst, SAE,
'available @ Amazon.com or a book drop near you' (taken from the SNL skit on Biden/Palin Debate). LOL

I think it's one of the best $20. classes you'll ever take. It covers both pulsed & continuous injection systems. Hot start problems have come up in the past in this section, & it all points to fuel.
For a primer, his suggested causes are:
1.) Cold start valve leaking or operating continuously,
2.) Fuel pressure incorrect,
3.) Air-flow sensor plate rest position incorrect,
4.) Insufficient residual fuel pressure,
5.) Fuel injectors faulty or clogged.

This is a problem I experienced after I bought my 400i & remembered what Peter (Forza Motorsports) told me....
"Sometimes starting the car requires holding the throttle down some,...give it the feeling of a carb car, not all examples are like this, you have to learn the feel of the car."
If I don't do this, my car 'will not start' after I stop. It takes a little practice, I don't step on the throttle until I start cranking. Try to keep the start-up blip to 1200-1300 RPM, 1500 MAX. This would be the 1st thing I'd recommend trying before getting involved w/pressure guages, yanking injectors, etc..

 

Be sure the coolant is coming from the radiator and not the overflow hose. If it is from the hose, make sure you have a correct spec radiator cap and that it is not worn out.

 

On the new cap, just be sure that the rating is correct. No less than a Ferrari dealer serviced my car and put a brand new radiator cap on with the wrong pressure rating. Had major overflow leaks and overheating until I figured iut out.

 

The manual for my series 2 400i 5 speed (GT) shows that the radiator expansion tank pressure cap should have a rating of 12.8 pounds per square inch. Since I believe that 12.8 psi translates to 0.8825 BAR, you should immediately change your cap to one that is rated 0.9 BAR.

Also, is it possible that you are overfilling? When the engine is cold, the expansion tank should be empty. If there is liquid in the expansion tank after the car has sat overnight, there will not be enough room to accept the overflow when the engine is hot and you will end up having the excess coolant leak out of the car.

Head gasket leaks can be indicated by oil in the coolant or coolant in the oil, depending on where the leak occured. Oil in the coolant does not indicate positively that a head gasket is bad as there are some other ways for oil to get into the coolant, namely a bad oil seal in the water pump as an example. While the water pump bearings cannot be replaced with the engine in the car, the oil seal in the water pump can be replaced without removing the engine.

A head gasket still could be bad without either of those two symptoms if the break in the gasket does not happen at a coolant or oil passageway between the head and the block. This could be detected by a compression test and the compression will be zero in the affected cylinder(s). That will also tell you which head gasket is bad. A very simple compression check without a tester can be done by removing all of the spark plugs and disconnecting the coil wire and then have an assistant turn over the engine. Place your thumb over each open spark plug hole and there should be a noticeably lower amount of pressure being pumped out of any bad cylinders compared to those that are good. This obviously isn't very precise at all but may help you figure out whether you need to do additional testing.

If you have no oil or coolant in places where it should not be and you have good compression in all cylinders (less than plus or minus 10% reading from average reading) then I would say your head gaskets are okay.

 

The best thing to do is fil up your radiator to the max and put the cap on. Leave your reservoir almost empty when the engine is cold. Drive and see what happens.

Let the car then sit to be cold again. When the radiator is still full...you have no leak.

Guido

 

I think part or all of your problem is the incorrect pressure on the radiator cap. You said the temp in the city was 100 (boiling). Once you shut down the engine it's temperature continues to go up for the next 15-20 minuets. A higher IE correct cap will raise the boiling point and you did say you could hear the coolant boiling. I think the question is, why is there an incorrect cap? Did the previous owner put the wrong cap on because that's what was laying around, or was it done on purpose? In other words try the correct cap first, it would also be the easiest to check.

 

Hi Wil: good luck with everything. Personally, and very selfishly, I'd love to see some more images of your car, possibly in the spanish countryside with or without a beautifull brunette with big brown eyes along side (preferably with). Come on, share the love! Yours is a beautiful example of a relatively rare car: a black on black, 400i 5 speed series I in great condition. In some of our opinions, from an aesthetic perspective, the best of the breed.

 

Willy

I know it must be very frustrating but try to remember that this Ferrari is a car just like the most ordinary driver on the road. Do not be intimidated just because it has the Ferrari name and logo on the car!

Like all cars it needs fuel, air and spark to perform well and your car with the Bosch K-Jetronic Fuel Injection is a very well known and conventional setup. Be patient and check the usual things, including whether your fuel pumps are working properly and you will sort things out.

Good luck!

John