Need some help with P2188 and P0140 | FerrariChat

Need some help with P2188 and P0140

Discussion in '360/430' started by carguy007, Aug 26, 2023.

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  1. carguy007

    carguy007 Formula Junior

    Apr 24, 2013
    886
    I have two codes: P2188 (Bank one running rich at idle) and P0140 (secondary pump air flow low on bank one). I think that the P0140 code is due to bad secondary air injection valves. Pump is flowing air and don't see any leaks. I also think that the P2188 may be caused by this as when the car starts I think it is registering a rich idle. Is this possible?

    Also I believe our primary 02 is wideband and when I looked at the voltage after the car was warmed up I was seeing a resting voltage of about 1.56 volts. When I rev voltage goes up so I know the sensor is responsive, however given the voltage should fall between 1-5, I thought 1.56ish volts was a little low.

    Does anyone have some experience or insight with this. Car runs great, but would like to not get the Cel every 50 or so miles.
     
  2. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    Isn't P0140 the rear O2 sensor (no activity, damaged, aging) ?
     
  3. carguy007

    carguy007 Formula Junior

    Apr 24, 2013
    886
    Sorry I meant P0491 (Secondary injection flow insufficient)
    Any thoughts?
     
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  4. 360+Volt=Prius

    360+Volt=Prius Formula 3
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    I’m not a pro.

    Swap the valves and see if the code followed the valve.

    Air injection Pump should only be active for a brief time at cold start, I’m not convinced that is causing the rich idle when warm.

    How does the data from bank 2 sensor 1 compare to bank 1 sensor 1? If question swap them and see if the rich condition follows the sensor.

    -ray
     
  5. carguy007

    carguy007 Formula Junior

    Apr 24, 2013
    886

    I swapped mafs and even got a new maf no change. This was in hopes of dealing with the rich idle. I just ran codes again and also have P0492 on the other side. I am thinking that both secondary air valves are sticking as I can't seem to find a vacuum leak anywhere and the pump is blowing strong.

    For the P2188 I am going to do a smoke test. I must have some small leak as the code is only related to idle and dont get rich mixture when the cars running.
     
  6. 360+Volt=Prius

    360+Volt=Prius Formula 3
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    Smoke test used for reasons for lean condition(unmetered air). I’m not sure how that will help. Perhaps try a healthy dose of Techron, perhaps an injector with debris.

    What do the plugs look like?
     
  7. 360+Volt=Prius

    360+Volt=Prius Formula 3
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    Mafs aere not what I was suggesting to swap, the O2 upstream sensors, and what’s their data was what I was asking about.
     
  8. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    And did you mean P1288 and not P2188?

    The sensor has reached the maximum value (possible sensor locking): Wiring / component intactness check
     
  9. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    Doesn't the code only refer to the RH bank?

    I'm having trouble finding information on this system. There seems to be a single solenoid valve on the F430, controlled by the RH ECU, but I can't find any "plumbing" diagrams. Is there a check valve for each bank?

    There is also supposed to be a relay somewhere for the secondary air system, but it's not shown in the WSM or Owner's Manuals I have.

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  10. carguy007

    carguy007 Formula Junior

    Apr 24, 2013
    886
    I used my launch software to read voltage of both primary 02 sensors at idle when I revel the car to 3k. Both were pretty much the same so I think we can rule them out. Here’s the right and left bank below:
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  11. carguy007

    carguy007 Formula Junior

    Apr 24, 2013
    886
    Meant 2188 rich idle condition. I am thinking it’s a very small vacuum leak somewhere on that bank. My plans to use a smoke machine when I have time next week.
     
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  12. 360+Volt=Prius

    360+Volt=Prius Formula 3
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    So a little confusing post.

    You swapped the MAF’s and the code went to the other side? p0491 to p0492?

    Also an air leak would have to be after combustion and before the the O2 sensor 1 to give a “false” rich condition ie too much oxygen at the sensor.
     
  13. carguy007

    carguy007 Formula Junior

    Apr 24, 2013
    886
    CEL P2188 is from what I understand the result of a lean condition however the ecu keeps adding fuel to try and get it in spec. If it keeps adding and reaches a certain point in which the fuel being added is too much it triggers the cel. Below is some better context:

    The P2188 and P2189 codes indicate that there’s an issue with the system running lean at either bank 1 or bank 2. P2188 indicates that the system is noting a problem at bank 1, while P2189 indicates an issue at bank 2. It’s important to note that the system will not set the P2188 and P2189 codes as soon as it notices an issue with the air/fuel mixture; when it notices the problem, it will try to inject more fuel. If the problem persists, it will then set the code.

    Also going the direction of the Fuel injectors is a good idea and will try and run some Techron or similar. I also notice that the car starts much stronger and turns over faster when the engine is warm vs a cold start. Could definitely be fuel related.
     
  14. carguy007

    carguy007 Formula Junior

    Apr 24, 2013
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  15. carguy007

    carguy007 Formula Junior

    Apr 24, 2013
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    There are two issues. One is there is an evap code for insufficient secondary pump airflow

    The other issue is a lean condition code on the right hand bank (p2188) in which the eco is dumping fuel trying to fix and eventually triggers a code as it realizes more fuel is not correcting the issue.

    I originally thought the P2188 code was a simple maf issue and tried to swap mafs to see if the code would follow. It did not and wanted to rule the Maf out so I also bought a brand new one and swapped it around. I can now confirm it is not a maf issue.

    I feel pretty confident after my datalogging of both primary 02 sensors and their behavior pretty much the same doubtful one is bad.
     
  16. carguy007

    carguy007 Formula Junior

    Apr 24, 2013
    886

    I am not sure about the check valve. I can dig a little. I think I created a lot of confusion too as I posted in the wrong forum. The issues I am having are with my 2012 Ferrari FF. Car runs great but I do have these two cels. I was thinking that the two codes were linked in the manner that somewhere in my evap lines was a small leak and one of those lines also fed into the intake, which in turn caused unmetered air after the Maf.

    Diagram of Secondary airpump and vacuum lines:
    https://www.scuderiacarparts.com/part-finder/ferrari/ff/oe/173/2638/49546
     
  17. Qavion

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    #17 Qavion, Aug 28, 2023
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2023
    Ah... That complicates things.... but it does explain why I couldn't find code P2188 on my F430 list :p

    I see that there are individual vacuum-controlled valves for each bank, with a single, electrically controlled solenoid valve controlling the vacuum to these 2 valves (via a vacuum T-piece). If there was a vacuum issue, you would think it would affect both banks.... unless the vacuum was strong enough to permit one valve to open and the other valve to partially open.

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    But I'm trying to tie in both codes to the same issue. Does the physical construction of the valve allow it to be stuck half open? If the valve was stuck half open, you would get low flow during secondary air operation and, additionally, a path for air to get into the exhaust system when the secondary air pump has been shut down (affecting fuel/air ratios), but can air be sucked through the pump internals by exhaust gas flow?
     
  18. 360+Volt=Prius

    360+Volt=Prius Formula 3
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    Sorry this is an FF, I’m not familiar with the v12, but I’m sure most of the following is applicable.


    What’s the Fuel trim?

    Below is An excerpt from a good read. See link

    https://obdsoftware.my.site.com/s/article/How-to-read-OBDII-live-data-A-mechanic-guide

    Fuel trim is crucial when it comes to diagnosing lean and rich conditions. It determines how the ECU controls the engine's fuel delivery. Always verify the STFT (short-term fuel trim) and the LTFT (long-term fuel trim) while reading live data from the OBDII scan tool.

    The OBDII scan tool expresses both the STFT and the LTFT as a percentage. The optimal reading for the STFT and LTFT is between 5% and 10%. Problem suspected if anything above 10% or below -10%.

    High fuel trim percentages indicate that the engine computer is trying to compensate for lean situations in the motor.

    A Negative fuel trim, on the other hand, indicates that the CPU is attempting to alter the fuel mixture to compensate for a rich mixture.
     
  19. carguy007

    carguy007 Formula Junior

    Apr 24, 2013
    886

    I actually I am getting the code for sec air flow on both banks. I just scanned with my Launch. My theory was the secondary air valves were both stuck closed. The car sat for a while in Florida, where there is a lot of humidity. It could also be stuck from carbon build up possibly. I wanted to remove one of the valves but there is very little room and I think I may even need to attack it from the bottom with some extensions.

    Ideally I would like to fix the secondary air flow code, but I can live with it and more concerned about the lien condition at idle that causing the computer to try and dump excess fuel to compensate.

    I think the two issues are separate from each other and unlikely linked. I must have a small leak post maf somewhere and was going to do a smoke test as next step and report back from there.
     
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  20. carguy007

    carguy007 Formula Junior

    Apr 24, 2013
    886
    \
     
  21. carguy007

    carguy007 Formula Junior

    Apr 24, 2013
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    No problem at all. This was a great read. My launch oddly enough is not giving me an option to data stream fuel trims. I am confused to why I can't see this option and will dig around a little more.
     
  22. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    So, as you said, possibly a vacuum (line) issue... or perhaps an On/Off solenoid valve (item 53 in your link?) not opening properly.

    P/N 315769? Not too expensive. Just a matter of finding it. Seems to be close to/mounted on the vacuum tank.
     
  23. carguy007

    carguy007 Formula Junior

    Apr 24, 2013
    886
    Great insight, one note is that I have factory exhaust valves that are operated via vacuum. The mannetino setting can fully open valves in "race" setting. When I switch to race I hear the valves open and the car get louder. Would this be confirmation the solenoid valve you mentioned is working properly? Or would these valves functioning properly not relate to this.

    The valves that are opening controlling the exhaust are respectively part number 22 (there is one on each side). It looks like the part you mentioned is completely separate and routes into the vacuum accumulator box (19).

    I was thinking I am going to start the car with the small vaccum hose that tees off to each secondary air valve and see if I can feel the vacuum on cold start when the pumps going. I may also pull the hose that injects the valves with air to the headers and make sure there is enough flow.
     
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  24. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    I think I'm out of my depth here, but I tend to agree with you. The systems seem to be independent (other than the vacuum tank) and you do seem to have enough vacuum for the exhaust valves. Having said that, I have seen issues with the vacuum system where there is not enough vacuum to supply all the valves when operated at the same time.

    Sounds like a (good) plan :)
     
  25. carguy007

    carguy007 Formula Junior

    Apr 24, 2013
    886
    Will keep you updated. The pump seems to be pretty strong. I disconnected the pipe on cold start up and was blowing hard and went for about a minute.
     

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