Need Detail Specialist

call Evan Kirk 602-790-3336. He is located in the Scottsdale Airpark, west side of the runway. He has done my cars for nearly 15 years

 

Congrats on the purchase. New year, new toys. Enjoy!

Sorry, I don't know any detailers, but 410SA knows alot more than I do.

 

Evan is good, but I'd also look at the work done by John at the Stables. Call Steve Gregg (he runs the place) at 480.699.3095. They do all my cars (including 3 black cars) and they're perfect.

 

Ryan at Protective Film Solutions has done the clear bra on two of my cars and does a nice job. Tell him Jim with the Stradale sent you.

http://www.protectivefilmsolutions.biz/

 

Congrats on your new car! Check out Pit Stop Auto Detailing, LLC. (www.azdetailing.com)

 

I have seen John's work and he is excellent at his craft.

 

Most modern car finishes consist of a base coating that contains the color, topped with a protective clear coat that is designed to keep the pigmented paint from oxidizing. This outer clear coat adds UV protection that helps prevent the sun's rays from drying out the base paint.

Oxidation was an obvious problem ten years ago because you quickly saw the color fade. Now that the outer layer is usually clear, oxidation is less obvious, yet it still occurs. The sun dries out top paint layers and natural oils are lost. If these oils aren't replaced, the paint oxidizes and the surface gradually becomes duller and duller.

Even more than yesterday's paints, today's clear coat finishes look faded whenever the surface becomes contaminated by airborne pollution, acid rain, industrial fallout, and countless other factors. If the contamination isn't removed frequently, it reduces the reflective quality of the finish until it looks dull and lifeless. If the contamination is left on the car for some time, it can begin to etch into the thin clear coat paint layer and expose the base coat to direct UV rays and even greater damage. Once the clear coat protection is gone, the car usually requires costly repainting.

 

Good post minus the part about natural oils, which neither exist, nor can be replaced. This is a commn mistruth which is often the result of dubious marketing techniques facilitated by some wax manufactureres who charge 1000's dollars of waxes that cost 1-3 dollars to make. Paint doesn't eat and you don't need to feed it oil. Most fading on modern clearcoats is from enviromental fallout and pollution as you noted. Contamination can even 'burrow' into the cross linked structure of modern catalized clear coats, which resembles oxidation as claying and decontamination systems may not fully remove it. Removing a slight amount the top coat (.02 mils or less) will usually remove the contaminated paint and restore gloss.

 

The answer for you're question;

Vintage Glaze is based on a custom formula developed for the 1947 Bentley Mark VI Cabriolet by franay, winner of several "Best of Shows" in its debut year on the Concourse circuit. Among the protective ingredients in Vintage are Evergreen, Honeydew, Coconut, Cantaloupe and Sunflower oils. Suitable for all paint types and colors. Vintage contains 61 percent Brazilian No.1 White Carnuba by volume, the highest in any automotive finish protective product.

Ingredients:
Contains White Carnuba Sap/Wax, Montain Evergreen Oil, Sunflower Oil, Canta Loupe Oil, Honeydew Extract, Propolis (Derived from Bees), Cetyl Cocoamide (derived from coconut oil).

A million dollar company can't just label something and sale you some thing else because you're applying by hand and if you have any allergies to the ingredients that was listed a big lawsuit will be field they just don't take the risk,

Don't You agree?

 

Clear coats don't absorb the oils. I have worked with Vintage wax. I'm sure that Todd will speak up to your response. My opinion is that Vintage is a great wax, but it does not "feed" the paint.

In 1947 the paints were different and the oils did have an effect on the paint, but not like todays clear coats.

Cheers,
GREG

 

They did a nice job on my car.

 

I don’t want to turn this debate in to an argument about which wax is better, because in the end nobody will agree. However, I have done 100s of hours in to waxes in general and have been flattered to have tested some products for particular wax blenders (less then 5 in the USA) and am very good friends with a couple formulators. I look at any thread were misinformation is being spread as a chance for education, and clearing up some of the most basic myths common in this industry.

Here are simple (scientific) facts regarding carnauba waxes in general.

Carnauba wax is a rejected resin found on the frawns of the Carnauba palm in northern Brazil.

ALL automotive carnauba wax is #1 Yellow, and it is of the highest quality.

All carnauba wax is yellow (actually a color range from an opaque tan to a darker brown) and color differences are a factor of the age of the wax itself. The color has little to no affect on performance. To my knowledge (and my research) no exporter of differentiates the differences in the various wax colors.

There is simply no such thing as White or Ivory Carnauba wax in the natural world. It doesn’t exist, and there is so special genealogy of the Carnauba Palm that produces anything other then a tannish colored wax. White or Ivory Carnauba is man made, either by an ultra fine (nano) powdering technique or by actually bleaching the color from the wax itself. Neither process will affect the actual optics of the wax itself.

Carnauba, in and by itself, is cheap and not glossy. The most expensive carnauba is roughly 10 dollars for a 5 pound brick. #1 grade carnauba is also used in medicine gel tabs and gummy bears, neither which are particularly glossy.

The gloss and look of carnauba is primarily a function of the emulsion of oils and solvents it is blended with. Keep in mind that carnauba wax is harder then concrete in natural form and MUST be cut with solvents to make it applicable to paint. Oils are also blended in to tweak the ‘jetting’ (wetness) factor, the distortion (depth), and the final laying (gloss) of the wax. Carnauba is often the cheapest of the ingredients used (even though some wax manufacturers claim to charge ungodly amounts for this cheap ingredient).

Because of its very hard nature, waxes are cut with various solvents to achieve applicability. Modern VOC compliancy standards have limited the strength of the solvents, making it nearly impossible to achieve more then 35% wet volume of wax in an emulsion. Any company claiming more is unscientific standards for measuring the volume of actual carnauba wax in the emulsion.

Hand applied waxes (waxes that have a soft texture that can be applied with the bare hands) are formed by a particular blending and cooking process then separates the actual wax from the solvent based carries. It is the friction of applying the wax to your hand that re-emulsifies the wax into the product, making it ‘melt’. It is not because the product has so much wax it needs to be melted on your hands (if wax melted at 98.6 degrees, imagine what would happen on a summer day) nor is it special enzymes. It is a blending process. (FWIW, carnauba wax melts at 160 degrees F).

To answer your statement, how a can a product make claims that are not true. Simple, there is no governing body that regulates standards or defines ‘true’.

For example, some wax companies claim to have 60-80 percent carnauba wax in their product. Given that this is impossible (waxes with this much carnauba content would be similar to a concrete block in texture, feel, and hardness), how can some companies state such high numbers.

1) They do not specify how the product was measured (this is important). I have called one particular high end wax manufacturer and asked how they measured the wax and justified their numbers (which should be something they would want to brag about). I was given no answer, only a promise of a return call. I have since called twice (never received a return call) and have not gotten an answer. If what they say is true, why the secrecy.
2) Given that there is no governing body, the truth can be manipulated several ways.

1) Lets say I have a 100 gallon drum. I fill this drum with 90 gallons of bird feathers (used to represent the fine power or flakes that carnauba is sold in). Now I fill this drum full of water (representing the other liquid products). Only an interesting thing happens, instead of accepting only 10 gallons of water, I am able to fit 90 gallons of water into the drum.

How is this possible? We know that you can no have 180 gallons of mass in a 100 gallon container. The difference is (in comparison) we compared the dry volume of feathers vs. the wet volume of the water. We have several ways to measure this. The most scientific would be to say that the drum contains 90gallons of water and 10 gallons of feathers, or 10% feathers.

However I could say that it contains 90 percent feathers by volume. I have not stated volume of what or what type of volume (read the measurements of your favorite waxes carefully). This isn’t untrue, but it isn’t an accurate representation.

Or I could even say that it is 50% feather by volume (90 gallons feather and 90 gallons water). It is the manipulation of the dry volume of the wax vs. the wet volume of the water. Again I have not defined volume (nor would I).

2) You may see a weight, like 50% carnauba by weight. There are two problems with this: The type of weight is not defined. Most carnauba waxes are blended with other waxes because of a synergistic benefit (carnauba is not good by itself). Is it 50% of the weight of wax in the product or 50% of the weight of the entire product…? Then again, marketing is fun stuff.

The other problem is that wax often weighs more then the products it is blended with by a 2 or 3 times margin. So 25% carnauba could make up 75% of the weight.

3) Going back to the percentages and the mixing of waxes, if a product contains 85% carnauba and 15% beeswax (a VERY good ratio for getting carnauba to work well) what stops the manufacture from stating that it is 85% carnauba. Nothing.
P21s (openly) uses this marketing with their new 100% Carnauba Wax.

I have tested Zymol waxes and found all of them (I have tested Royale, Vintage, Concours, etc) to be very nice waxes, competitive with anything in the boutique wax market. There performance was not measurably better or worse then others. It is a same that many of the marketing they use (hand application, percentages, white wax) is not scientifically accurate, but again it doesn’t need to be to be truthful. I would rate Vintage as nice as any wax I have used in the 50-100 dollar range.

In the end it doesn’t matter I suppose. You and I both know that 95% of the shine is in the prep work (polishing and leveling the paint to cause a refraction free, flat surface that will reflect maximum light) so the rest (including the wax debate) is just for fun.

 

Todd,

Excellent explaination.... I always look forward to your posts. There are informative, educational, and (in my opinion) unbiased...

Thanks,

Mike in Kuwait

 

Thanks Jim! It was great to see you. Let us know if anything comes up.

Marcus
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Contact The Stables. They are in Scottsdale AZ. They can probably get the swirls out from bad detail work.

 

Pit Stop also keep all my vehicles clean. They do a great job also. They have a nice mobile wash program that I use and recommend.

 

I also just had my car's windows done at Protective Film Solutions. They use 3M products. I had the 3M crystalline tints put on a couple cars. Talk to Ryan. They also do 3M clear bras. In fact, they did most of the installs for many of the dealers in the area. They were highly recommended to me, and I concur. They did a great job.