Need advice on buying a 1989 328 GTS in long term storage | FerrariChat

Need advice on buying a 1989 328 GTS in long term storage

Discussion in '308/328' started by Beard Bros., Aug 22, 2018.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. Beard Bros.

    Beard Bros. Karting

    Aug 22, 2018
    95
    Midwest USA
    Full Name:
    James
    Hi everyone, I am new to the Ferrari world and I need some advice on a 1989 328 GTS. The car had a major service done about 10 years ago at 16128 miles and has not been driven or started since.. The owner has no idea where any of the paperwork and books are and said he is the second owner of the car. It was bought and serviced at in IL. I am going to contact the dealership to see if I can get copies of the paperwork and service records. It has been in non temp. controlled storage in a steel farm shed with a concrete floor, so you know the mice and bugs have been in it, but I found no damage from either. As for the painted red roof which it should not have, I looked at it closer and noticed it did not fit correctly against the windshield header and the rear roofline and when I looked inside the rear holding pins were not in the slots. It looks as if this roof is for a different year/model? Everything on the car is dusty and full of spiderwebs, man I HATE spiders. The good news is that the paint and interior are in fantastic condition under the dust, they are all original, I thoroughly checked. He has the spare tire, folding key and tools. I also need an idea of what it is worth, it is in very good condition. Any input would be greatly appreciated!
    Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
    pilotoCS likes this.
  2. greyboxer

    greyboxer F1 World Champ

    Dec 8, 2004
    12,282
    South East
    Full Name:
    Jimmie
    Roof pin photo makes it look like the roof is back to front not from a different car

    If you are lucky a good clean and it'll fire up however.......

    Dealer probably won't help with history but it'll need tires & a full belt service immediately

    If you can do the work yourself then look at a regular car value and work back
     
    Beard Bros. likes this.
  3. nerofer

    nerofer F1 World Champ

    Mar 26, 2011
    11,968
    FRANCE
    I agree about the top, it's obviously front to back: the pins are where the latches should be.
    Is the shroud beneath/around the spare wheel missing, or has it been taken away by the new owner just for the pictures posted here?
    New tires and belt service needed. Not sure about the gas, which may have started to turn into varnish at the bottom of the tanks, so drain the tanks. Not sure the K-Jet will be ready to do its work. Check the gas/petrol lines, especially the one connecting the two tanks at their bottom. Check the battery, etc...
    By the way, what is the chassis number / VIN ?

    Rgds
     
    Beard Bros. likes this.
  4. Dr Tommy Cosgrove

    Dr Tommy Cosgrove Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    May 4, 2001
    35,282
    Birmingham, AL
    Full Name:
    Tommy
    Looks like it would make a good driver. I have a feeling you are not going to talk him into a price that would make getting this one and fixing it (to drive, not to show etc) economical.

    Tempting for everyone looking at it sitting there, though, I get it. But price good sound 328's then ask yourself if you can do better with this; price plus repairs. Often, you can't.
     
    Beard Bros. likes this.
  5. Alex308qv

    Alex308qv Formula Junior

    Jul 1, 2016
    378
    PA
    Full Name:
    Alex
    The targa panel may just be laying on there 180 degrees backwards... turn it around, the pins line up with holes in the windshield frame.

    I bought an '85 QV that had low miles that sat motionless for 10 years or so with a prior owner. It required all the normal time-dependent maintenance things that you would do whether or not a car is driven (tires, timing belts, hoses, vacuum lines, wires, etc.). Then there are the extra needs that result specifically from sitting idle, and these are mainly due to stagnant fluids in the fuel and braking system that likely harbor moisture. Budget for a brake system rebuild, fuel distributor rebuild, water pump rebuild and cooling system flush. In my case, water that settled in the fuel reacted with the steel outlet fitting and sender unit in the left-side tank, causing pinhole corrosion through the aluminum tank bottom. A shop fabricated and welded on a new sump section of the tank. Today the 308 is a joy and runs perfectly... they CAN be brought back from a slumber!

    Of course, try to find out why it was put away 10 years ago... the owner and the shop can hopefully confirm it had nothing to do with the car itself.
     
    Beard Bros. likes this.
  6. Beard Bros.

    Beard Bros. Karting

    Aug 22, 2018
    95
    Midwest USA
    Full Name:
    James
    Ok, so the top fitment is solved but what about it being painted? Was that an option on these cars?
     
  7. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
    Staff Member Admin Miami 2018 Owner

    Dec 1, 2000
    59,406
    Southlake, TX
    Full Name:
    Rob Lay
    So at minimum I think you are looking at $6-8k for a comprehensive major plus $1,000 for complete in and out detail/correction.

    I would also expect some "unknowns" that can range $1,000-20,000. If you can drive the car now and not obvious big issues and then do leak down/compression then I think you can lower the high end of those "unknowns" to $5,000.

    So basically if a great car best case you are still going to be out almost $10,000.
     
    Beard Bros. likes this.
  8. Meister

    Meister F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 27, 2001
    5,516
    Duluth, MN
    Full Name:
    The Meister
    If you can verify the "major" was done just prior to storage IMO you don't need to do another "full/comprehensive" major. You'd do about 1/2 of one focusing on the soft parts like belts/tensioner bearings, fuel/coolant and maybe oil hoses, water pump rebuild. There is no need to go back in and adjust valves as there wouldn't have been any wear to metal parts/adjustments.

    carefully pull it out, fog the cylinders, turn it over a couple times by hand to ensure the engine is free, do belts and bearings, get it cleaned up and drive it then work on replacing the rubber parts like hoses and probably tires.

    It's going to cost some $ to get running (mostly peace of mind by doing belts/bearings). The overall amount will depend on what you can/want to do and what you need to have others do.

    Depending on what you can actually get it for you could easily flip it here "as is" for a few bucks too.
     
    Beard Bros. and mike996 like this.
  9. nerofer

    nerofer F1 World Champ

    Mar 26, 2011
    11,968
    FRANCE
    No; it never was a dealer or factory option. In fact, the list of options on a 328 was really, really short. Even shorter for you in the US than for we in Europe, because the cars came to you already fitted with most options from the factory; for instance, A/C was an option for 328s in Europe, so you had to pay extra for it, and a small number of cars are not fitted with A/C when the original customer order didn't include it.
    But for 328s as for most Ferraris at the time, if you were ready to pay extra and wait longer, you might have some (very limited) customisation of a car, but these are in very short number.

    Body color-painted tops as a factory option started with the 355, if my memory doesn't fail me. On 328s, some owners did it themselves, or commissioned someone to do it, either because it gave the car a more "up to date" look, or because it made it closer to the cleaner lines of the GTB, generally considered to be prettier.

    Rgds
     
    Beard Bros. likes this.
  10. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    Nov 29, 2001
    12,661
    San Carlos, CA
    Full Name:
    Mitchell Le
    I have a 1989 328 GTSi so I know this model. A couple of years ago, I brought back to life a 355 that sat for 10 years so I know what it takes. What my experience tells me is...

    1. If you want a collectible, this is the one. Buy it, wash it, clean it, detail it, and PUSH it every where you want to go. Don't ever crank that engine over. Just park it in your warehouse with the cover on. Or park it in your living room.

    2. If you want to drive it, then see what a good condition 89 goes for, subtract $20K and make that offer. You will need total engine service, hoses replaced, all brake cylinders rebuilt, master cylinder replaced or rebuilt and that model has the Teves ABS which is impossible to rebuild. The ABS pump is most likely frozen up and needs to be replaced. You need a new clutch, pressure plate, new tires of course, and, wash, wax, detail.

    The good thins is gas tanks are aluminum so they don't rust.
     
  11. Steelton Keith

    Steelton Keith F1 Veteran
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 19, 2009
    6,557
    Raleigh NC
    Full Name:
    Keith Hall
    Don't try to start it up! As others have noted, a good estimate to get everything right is minimum $ 8k and could be $20. Does current owner have proper title? Check all VINs. Good luck and keep us posted.
     
    Beard Bros. likes this.
  12. Meister

    Meister F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 27, 2001
    5,516
    Duluth, MN
    Full Name:
    The Meister
    hopefully you are getting it for free because when this thread ends you'll be sending it back to Italy for a full nut/bolt resto.
     
    mixedgas, Saabguy and Beard Bros. like this.
  13. Brian A

    Brian A F1 Rookie

    Dec 21, 2012
    3,079
    SanFrancisco BayArea
    Full Name:
    1983 US 308 GTS QV
    Wow! Based on the photos, it looks like a really nice car.

    For a car that superficially looks intact (an important consideration for these cars) and in such good shape, the big questions always are what the photos can't show:
    • Have a good long talk with the current owner about WHY the car was serviced and then parked for 10 years.
    • Ask him/her WHY the targa top was painted red. (And putting it on backwards is a novice blunder. Why is it like that?)
    • Have the car checked for accident damage.
    • Did the car run when parked.
    • etc.
    The Hagerty Valuation Tool is a good place to get a sense of the value of these cars. People tend to overestimate the condition of their cars though.
     
    Beard Bros. likes this.
  14. Beard Bros.

    Beard Bros. Karting

    Aug 22, 2018
    95
    Midwest USA
    Full Name:
    James
    I also need some advice on how "to check the numbers" on this car. I found the VIN in the engine compartment and the data tag is riveted in the drivers door jamb, but where else do I look for engine/chassis numbers and How do I verify it it is the original engine?
     
  15. Mang

    Mang F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Jul 11, 2007
    5,911
    ta HO
    Full Name:
    Mike S.
    Cool story...Look forward to seeing where this goes!
     
    Beard Bros. likes this.
  16. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    Nov 29, 2001
    12,661
    San Carlos, CA
    Full Name:
    Mitchell Le
    engine number underneath the oil filter housing
     
    Beard Bros. likes this.
  17. bertrand328

    bertrand328 Formula 3

    Jun 1, 2015
    1,477
    France
    Full Name:
    Bertrand
    All you need is here :

    http://www.308-328.com/328/328guideachaten.html
     
  18. cmt6891

    cmt6891 Formula 3

    Feb 25, 2008
    1,334
    Encino, Ca
    Full Name:
    Carl T
    All of the above suggestions are right on the mark and some or all the remedies could be needed. Always a crapshoot when you can't run the engine and is not a project for the faint of heart. Was the car stored wet or dry? Worst case scenario is the crank is siezed which will involve an engine rebuild. Best thing you can do is invest in a knowledgable mechanic that can determine that for you before buying the car. I have seen carbed cars start up, of course with some proper preparation, after being stored for over 20 years.
     
    Beard Bros. likes this.
  19. pappy.72

    pappy.72 Formula Junior

    Nov 13, 2010
    516
    Elgin, IL
    Full Name:
    Dave
    Gas it up and drive it. That is what they do on all those car shows. Ha. Oh and the dust makes it worth more.
     
    Beard Bros. likes this.
  20. Dr Tommy Cosgrove

    Dr Tommy Cosgrove Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    May 4, 2001
    35,282
    Birmingham, AL
    Full Name:
    Tommy
    I always try to make people in your position understand that to make this 328 really nice, it is going to be very expensive. My point is you DON"T have to do that.

    You will have people go ape **** because the tool kit is missing or incomplete. So what? So what if it has been gone for decades? If you care about that sort of thing, fine, BUT THOSE THINGS DON'T MAKE CARS LIKE THIS A BAD CHOICE!!!!!!! Missing screwdriver, missing targa cover, non-original freaking radiator cap... the list of nit picking is endless with these things.

    Sitting ten years is a bit if a different problem though and when Rob says the unknowns can range from 1000 to 20,000 - that is not a joke.
     
    4re308 and Beard Bros. like this.
  21. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jun 11, 2004
    10,628
    CT
    Full Name:
    John Kreskovsky
    Check the oil level, pull the relays for the fuel pump, take the spark plugs out, squirt a little oil in each cylinder and see if it will turn over. If it does, then you can do a compression check.
     
    Dave rocks, Beard Bros. and derekw like this.
  22. Beard Bros.

    Beard Bros. Karting

    Aug 22, 2018
    95
    Midwest USA
    Full Name:
    James
  23. Dr Tommy Cosgrove

    Dr Tommy Cosgrove Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    May 4, 2001
    35,282
    Birmingham, AL
    Full Name:
    Tommy
    BTW, welcome to FChat.
     
    Beard Bros. likes this.
  24. nerofer

    nerofer F1 World Champ

    Mar 26, 2011
    11,968
    FRANCE
    You'll find the engine number on a small tag, inside the "V" of the engine's heads, under the intake plenum at right, probably after moving a hose or two, it's quite "deep down" the "V". You will have to bend over the trunk and look for a minute or two, at right of the right intake tube. See the engine number "17330" on my '89 328 GTB for example (the pic is lying on its side...).

    There is no way to be 100% sure that youyr car has its original engine number if you don't have the warranty card, but many of us do have lists of chassis numbers with the known corresponding engine numbers, so if you tell us your chassis number/VIN and engine number, we can see if they "match" reasonably close. According to your Facebook entry, the car is #81686; your engine number should be in the 17850 / 18150 range, although some oddballs numbers might occur from time to time.
    You might ask the factory also, but usually they do not answer questions of this nature.

    Rgds
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
    Beard Bros. likes this.
  25. nerofer

    nerofer F1 World Champ

    Mar 26, 2011
    11,968
    FRANCE
    Yes, you never know how much it will cost to awake a car after a long sleep. My '89 GTB had a seven years sleep between 1999 and 2006 and was awaken by the person from whom I bought it later (in September 2008, so it will be 10 years in four weeks from today).
    Other that a change of belts, a check of the camshafts and valves, a check of the K-Jet and a change of the gas pump, it ran without any trouble. Of course, all circuits were checked: brakes, etc...then a few weeks later, the hose between the two gas tanks was changed, as it leaked, and the front exhaust manifold, which was cracked. That's been 12 years now, and since this, she has run flawlessly, without any trouble whatsoever.
    But you never know.

    Rgds
     
    Beard Bros. likes this.

Share This Page