Natural driving aptitude... what is it at the core?

I had to re-read this a couple times just to get my head around it. Super freak

 

Some interesting thoughts here... some of mine...
This "ability" gets into the nature vs nurture aspect of doing things well. (or exceptionally)
There are undoubtedly some genetic traits that can help you at many sports but do they alone determine your ultimate skill? Or can you become a top level driver without them?
In my experience the "natural" is often someone who has grown up in an environment that challenged them physically and mentally in play. They took risks, jumped off things, slide their bike around, tried flips into the pool and got scrapes and bruises while learning limits with cause and effect. This "knowledge" developed- or certainly enhanced talent.
Naturals sometimes don't have the work ethic of the "normals" so they end up not doing as well in the long run...
I love taking someone who is not a natural and with hard work on both our parts making them better and even sometimes as good as or better than the naturals...
A final point is that the average driver who works really hard to get great is often more complete in skills and understands what they are doing more than that natural.

 

I think you need to have complete disregard for the car as just an expendable tool. You need a huge bag of cash for more expendable tools and an even bigger bag of cash to make that tool go. Then the less talent you have the more it is going to cost.

 

hey Mike! welcome and glad to have you here! (for those who don't know, Mike's client list is nothing short of phenomenal        Sliderule Motorsport inc - Home).

anyway, great post and I particularly agree with the highlighted part. I think what made Senna and Schumi so dominant was their work ethic...they were naturals, but got 100% out of their talent through hard work, which made them the dominant drivers of their respective eras.

 

Rob, I think I know what you are getting at but I had an immediate reaction to this posting; which is: I'm sorry to report I knew someone like this and he is no longer among us... I think aside from what everyone else has stated you need really excellent situational awareness.

 

This conversation reminds me of listening to the club players chatting at the tennis club I was a pro at, after coming off the tour. They would be talking about using this racquet or that string...... and THAT was going to take them to the next level. All that nonsense doesn't matter. I would be beat the best of them, playing with a garbage can lid.

As with most sports, people will have a 'feel' for what is going on...... or not. With tennis, I could spot a kid who had potential within 5 minutes of hitting with him if he had the feel. From there it was coach ability, practice time and guidance.

With cars, its very similar. You either have it or you don't. All the best equipment in the world isn't going to put you on the front row..... unless the innate feel is there. If it is, coach ability, practice and guidance....... THEN the equipment.

 

Many years ago I went to Bondurant just as a refresher as I was about to compete in a series. It so happened that a client/friend/neighbor also came to the same event. From SC all the way to AZ. There was a group of ten scheduled including us. A group of eight cancelled last minute and it was just the two of us. One instructor for three days just for us. My friend had been racing for years. I always wanted to but couldn't afford it. I had lots of track time and countless autocross victories, One Lap of America and so on.
The instructor asked us to introduce our selfs and our driving/racing history. My friend Steve had an impressive list of events he'd been part of but not necessarily results. He also had a military background which made him very proper, calculated and may be anal. All I said was. I've been instructing for years and Ive done One Lap twice in two different Lamborghinis.
Next step was for us to get on track and him following us to observe for about 5 laps on a track neither of us had seen before. After that we went back to the classroom to see what he'd say.
"Steve, you're extremely precise. You try to find the best way around and then you duplicate it. Most likely due to your military background. "
"You Karl, don't do any of that. You react to what the car tells you and you respond. That is called instinct. "
On the way out the class room he came up behind me and whispered "trust me, instinct always prevails. You drive just like me. "

I've seen it with my kids. I've taught them all on track when they were young (still one to go) and it just clicks. I can waste my breath telling a doctor how to do it over and over and I show a 14 yearold once and after 2 laps he's one of the fastest out there.

 

I've done some coaching for open wheel racers. I've seen a range of people who I know have no hope in ever being fast to those that I think can be. In the process I've spent some time considering what makes the difference.

What I've concluded, after a lot of thought, is besides the obvious things managing fear, instincts, ect., it's ones ablilty to understand, micro-second by micro-second, what the car is doing in relation to what you're asking it to do. Then taking that information, processing it, and adjusting. Again, all on a micro-second scale. It's the ablilty to comprehend and predict what the car should do for each micro input you are giving it....then comparing it's response to your expected response. How you adjust, how closely your expectations match the results, and how fast you can process this determines how well you can put your instincts to use. Your ability to make the correct adjustments are based on experience, and a deep mechanical understanding of how your car works. Not to mention a good understanding of tires and physics.

Those instincts are then used to supplement the driving by numbers. In other words, one must still be able to match lap for lap the same points used the lap before. For example, I can describe in complete detail, what every corner looks like at every track I've raced at, and even what RPM I expect to see at a given point after each corner.

That's what I've told my students. I've never had anyone explain it to me like that, but it's what I've derived after many hours of pondering why some are fast and some aren't. I firmly believe this to be true....I should name this and trademark it. Ha!

 

EXCELLENT post! But you are not alone in your approach...

 

Spatial awareness, some are better at it than others

 

All of the above and YES! Tires and physics! For example (if AI in Forza has any truth to it) the corners Eau rouge at Spa and the S at the top of the hill at Road Atlanta involve, grade, camber, gforce, down force and a wide variety of other factors. I find the AI is extremely limited in it's capacity to account for grade and down force versus tire grip. A fast driver is one who can think of the difference between the g loading at the the entry of Eau Rouge, and the down force and grip on the exit through the switch back past the pit exit at Spa. This is complete 3 dimension driving and you can leap and bound past the AI at this point because it doesn't seem to be in the AI code at all. Some people don't think this way either. I guess it can be taught but a natural feel is better. Why brake when a lift will do? Why brake when a g compression through a valley will do? And oh yeah, gearing! The uphill grade at Eau Rouge is faster with a down shift. AI lacks here again.

 

The music analogy is apt. As an amateur musician I've had many, many musician friends, some of whom became pro. There is a division, however, between learned technique, and having an ear for notes and sense of rhythm.

Even the most skillful technicians, don't sound nearly as musical as those who have both the technique and that hard to quantify ability to just "know" what sounds good. Phrasing, vibrato, ability to play around the beat rather than right on the beat, all make for a true virtuoso musician -- and not virtuoso as it is now commonly known (i.e., kids that are trained heavily from age of 3 and just become master technicians -- akin to someone who can type really fast on a keyboard but can't write anything worth reading).

Driving is similar, I think, because of the amount of information that must be processed. It simply escapes easy formulation. The great driver can adjust as they are going, like a great musician improvising over a key change. Training can help develop that too, of course, but I think there is something more hardwired than taught.

Of course, hard to know who has that sort of raw talent and who has been trained to be nearly at that same level... but I think over time that difference would show.

 

Instinct. Plus the ability to act upon it.

 

Read "The Racing Driver" by Denis Jenkinson.

 

I think you guys have it closest to the truth.

I also think most people here have touched upon some aspect of a natural driving aptitude but apparently without scientific or systematic analysis on what is after all, a biological phenomenon.

I was a medical researcher at one time and every human issue I come across in life I relate to and try to understand them using research data whenever possible. IMO, some people are born with better natural driving aptitude because:

• their brains are wired to process 2-D and 3-D spatial visualization much better than their peers. This is a gender-related trait, believed to be a temporal/parietal lobe brain function. It helps people visualize where they are in relations to what they are looking at (situational awareness). Good drivers can visualize where and how they need to place their cars and which direction is north...etc. This spatial ability is however not absolute because a range of this ability can be seen across female and male sampling populations in any given study. There will be individuals in the low and high ends of the ranges as well as outliers who may be exceptionally good (or poor). So you can also have female drivers with exceptional spatial ability that trounce most of their male counterparts.

• age matters. You start to lose spatial, mental and physical ability as you get older.

• ability to concentrate and focus intensely for prolong periods without fatigue - this is where natural musicians excel. They can lose themselves in their music with a mental ON/OFF switch. Voluntary ability to focus is a primary skill in doing well in life. From my experience, this ability can be enhanced but it is mostly an innate trait.

• related to ability to focus is the ability to detach and view a potentially life threatening activity in a purely abstract manner. Driving fast and cleanly needs to become a sort of mental and physical game that you allow your muscle memory to take over. You cannot consciously "think" about every move. You only think strategy, the rest your lower brain functions and body will execute like a reflex action. I believe this trait can be learned. A good driver consciously learns good driving habits, techniques and then they become 2nd nature.

• related to the ability to react is the physical attribute of very good hand-eye coordination and extremely fast reflexes like those found in good musicians. These can be fine-tuned but cannot be acquired because they are physical attributes of a driver's brain and body. FWIW, a shorter driver will have shorter nerve fibres and this makes him/her more likely to have faster reflexes.

• related to fast reflexes is a person's innate metabolic rate. A higher metabolic rate correlates to faster mental and physical responses from that person. If the driving activity requires fast reaction times, a person with high metabolic rate would be better suited. Persons with higher metabolic rates adapt better to athletic activities and are less likely to get bored and lose attention.

• self-confidence is required for a person to focus and react in a clean manner to the challenge being presented. The driver needs to believe in the abilities he has acquired and to execute them without hesitation. This is a learned trait.​

These are the traits for driving that come to mind but if you want to discuss racing ability, that's quite a different topic.

 

I sure wish I had the innate skill to recognize my instinctual talent like a lot of the studmuffins posting above. Alas, I use repetition that in a mere 5 minutes the talents above would see through for the disguised incompetence it is.

Sheesh there is some self-congratulatory BS on here - I hope too many don't throw out a rotator cuff with back-patting.

It's way too complex to say it is just "instinct." Even F1 world champs devote an enormous amount of effort to the sport that, if they did not, I think lesser instinct with harder work would overcome. It's a spectrum of skills and if you enjoy it and work hard at it I think lots of people can get very good.

I can't play any music that is not on a CD or MP3. I can't play any stick and ball sport worth a damn and when I play outfield, a hit in my direction is at least a double. I can't run and bounce a ball at the same time, let alone put it in a net. On my best day in my 20s I could run 7 minute mile pace. But I love driving and have worked hard at it for many years and am way better than I ought to be in a race car.

To me, loving it is a huge part of the equation. Look at Raikkonen. Huge talent, but I think he just does not love it enough.

 

Maybe you are too hard on him. IMO Kimi Raikkonen is textbook sisu. That's why he's always been "iceman". After all sisu is the most highly valued Finnish national quality.

 

Skippy instructors have an expression for some students - OSB. Other Sports Beckon.

For some, they exit pretty quickly because they can't handle the G forces. No shame here. Some can, some can't.

Unlike others here, I can't speak from experience; but my guess is seat time/seat time/seat time. Let's say a hot shoe does six race weekends a year. Counting qualifying, this equals, what, maybe 24 hours of actual seat time (provided you don't wreck or break down).

That and what FBB said. If you're not willing to wad the car, you'll never know what you can do. This is why Spec Miata is so cool. Cheep, but safe, racing. Hard to beat.

Me? I'm fat and old. I just like to go fast in a place where everybody is going the same direction (mostly) and has a clue about what they are doing. Bottom line: Man gotta know his limitations.

Dale

PS I'm really, really gonna miss TWS.

 

SMOOTHNESS The ability to not upset the car in trasitional maneuvers - this is being constantly aware of the balance of the car. When the car is at the limit, even the tiniest twitch or rough handling can be enough to cause you to go off line or even into the weeds.
This is something you can practice every day, maybe only at 3 or 4 tenths.
Being smooth gets the chasis set up, balanced and loaded to go into a turn

Knowledge of the cars level of grip
Experience with the car at that limit
Focus, concentration, good situational awareness

The fastest and safest way to get the experience is to do some DE, (driver education) events with the club at the real race track. There are no trophys, no points, just fun -NO cops, no curbs and usually a lot of safe run off areas, so if you make a big mistake the penalty is only a little bent ego.

chris
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I don't know what else to say, but just get your butt out there, with the car, and give it your all - there isn't a whole lot more to life than this, except, perhaps, well never mind

chris

 

Don't quite follow. So you disagree there is an innate skill bringing people "over the top"?

Innate skills exist. IQs are more or less hardwired. Someone can be raised by uneducated parents, have very limited access to books and traditional learning, but if they inherited high intelligence, they will still be intelligent. Honing that, and nurturing it will just allow more of the potential to be realized.

Same with many traits. I am a guitarist (and a "decent" one by my measure, and perhaps a very good one by popular measure). It doesn't matter if I practiced 5 hrs or 10 hrs per day as a kid... I would never achieve the technical ability of Shawn Lane. His brain was wired differently. There is a reason he could outplay any pianist, and any guitarist, and with minimal training or practice. I have reached an ability level perhaps 10-15% below my own personal potential. Practicing another 50,000 hours in my lifetime might extract another 10%, but my potential in that area is simply below some others.

Spatial recognition, intuition with speed, ability to understand or feel the physics of a car, will vary dramatically between individuals. The best pro racers had the natural base off which their training could develop.

Now, that isn't to say they are the best innate talents out there. Racing requires significant funds and so the starting pool is very limited. To me, that means the best natural talents are likely never nurtured enough to hit their potential. But it does mean, that out of the many thousands that train to race, the ones at the very top likely have that foundational skill set that is already at the top 10% (or 5%... or 1%) of the population.

There are some people more innately musical than others. I can hear if two notes are in perfect relative pitch. If even just a few percent off pitch, it is very obviously "off" to me. Several musician friends who progressed very far through practice can't tell... and they can be playing an instrument out of perfect tune and not know it. Others can call out any note, without any reference note to start with.

People do have different abilities, not everyone is the same, and so the is almost certainly true of key traits for racing drivers. Hard work will get someone only so far. Hard work + the natural potential = world champion F1 drivers.

Also, for anyone pointing to family legacies... that is part of where you see a great combination of nature + nurture.

 

My point is that driving skill is more than innate ability or instinct. I also think some of the posts are pretty self-congratulatory. Finally, I have seen many people progress into being excellent drivers with hard work, to the point where I really wonder if serious dedication and love of the sport is really at the core. Granted, it's hard to love it enough if you are not also talented.

Bottom line is that I think it's complex, although there do seem to be some amazing natural talents out there like Senna and Schumacher, but I sure know that at least Schumacher worked very hard on and off the track to win his driving championships. I am not convinced that far more than the few we hear about could drive at the top level with enough dedication and some good fortune to go with it.

 

Thats ME Rob but I STILL sucked at Formula Mazda!

 

An uncanny sense of balance, and an innate understanding of physics...