My POSITIVE experience with Bob Norwood

Dave - when I was a kid, building Pro Street cars was in full force.

It was common to see for sale adds:

"$90,000 invested, $30,000 OBO"

Didn't stop thounds of projects world wide. Men are as financially stupid with cars as they are woman. It's never going to change. (Craig - I'm not calling you stupid)

The 355 I'm restoring is going to cost a lot, I bought it right and doing much of the work myself with likely keep me above water but if it doesn't work out that way, oh well.

 

The economics don’t work. It’s similar to a Factory Five Cobra replica on a different scale.

People build them buy the hundreds got $50,000-ish, and the struggle to sell them for over $30k.

But you learn as you go, and get to specify the car exactly as you want it.

Matt

 

Ok, so the TL/DR for those joining us at this point is that the OP, a self-proclaimed happy guy and long-time Ferrari enthusiast, repurchased a basket case car he owned many years ago (and therefore has prior knowledge of) with the intent of building as close of a replica of a 288GTO as he can practically achieve. He posted that he had work performed by Bob Norwood-- work that he is pleased with and that he feels was fairly valued. In response, he's been insulted, his motives have been questioned, and his priorities challenged.

Meanwhile, in another thread, someone who has made disparaging remarks about Ferraris and the people who love them, bought a 308 with tacked on bodywork that looks absolutely nothing like a 288 sight unseen off of eBay from someone who dug a rather deep hole for himself on this very forum. And yet that OP has received an outpouring of sympathy for putting himself in a bad situation, and Bob Norwood has been raked over the coals based on the OP's claims, even though that OP's dubious choices have scarcely been mentioned or challenged.

Make of it what you will folks, because I sure can't explain it. Just part of the internet culture I guess. Good is bad, bad is good. As the posts add up, a comment on another car site about FChat being a forum that eats its own young keeps coming to mind. I think it was Stephanie who said years ago, "Come for the cars, stay for the drama".

 

An old friend, who at one time owed an alloy 275 GTB, gave me this advice. Always buy original cars. If you can't afford a 250 GTO, don't buy a replica, just buy something else you can afford. Original means unmodified, at least in things you can see. It is okay to upgrade to electronic injection, for example, but keep the original parts.

Every now and then, you'll see a unmodified 1990 Miata with less than say 40k miles on BAT. If I was a collector, which I'm not, I'd buy this over a modified Ferrari.

 

I know a few people now carrying out 288/F40 style conversions of existing Ferrari's. Most seem to be budgeting around the $150k figure min.

The key thing is most of these are no longer the 80s/90s simple external lookalikes, the builders are now mainly going into great detail with proper wheelbase and track, and high quality modern components under the skin than ever before. It wont exactly replicate the engineering of the original but will at least match those capabilities. The recent Mototechnique v8 Dino is an example of such thinking.

The results will be that some of these will be on par with. or even have more modern/ better engineering and construction than the real deal, for less than 15% to 20% of the outlay of a the genuine article. That last sentence will raise some eyebrows but the 288/F40 construction is of its 80s generation, even Ferrari would not replicate much of that if they ever decided to build a tribute version.

That is when it starts to make financial sense. Not one builder I know is the type to go to a show and claim their cars is anything more than what it actually is, they love the look of the originals but also want a capable machine underneath. Again think Singer Porsche.

The examples discussed on fchat are merely scratching the surface of whats currently being built out there now, some exciting cars will surface in the next couple of years. I hope ours is one of them.

Sure with the budget you can go out and buy a car ready to go from the dealer which will outperform these builds, but where is the fun in that, and do you really get value for money when buying a 250GTO when you could have a warehouse full of better performing cars for the same budget. Horses for courses.

 

As a longtime aficionado I can understand where you're coming from. And as a longtime car builder and modifier I can sense the OP's passion. If you'd rather buy a real Dodge Colt than an ersatz 600 hp 288 GTO it's your money and it's your bidness.

What gets me is that what we have here is essentially someone happily declaring that they just had a great meal at their favorite restaurant and then a whole bunch of people saying that he paid too much for the food, that the food is actually crap, etc, etc, when the OP was perfectly happy with the food and the price paid. Meanwhile, in another thread we have someone complaining about gas station sushi and getting no end of sympathy, even though no one in his right mind eats gas station sushi.

One guy is happy, yet he gets crapped on. Another guy is chronically unhappy (due to his own actions) and he's considered a victim. Somethin' ain't right with that.

 

I think Norwood is a deep current for some folks. If he was at another builder, I doubt we'd see six pages on this thread.

 

You make a great point. And I have my own questions about Norwood. I just prefer to save my tar and feather for those who dig their own hole.

 

That's why I said it was on a different scale. Tremendously more FF roadsters were made than GTO replicas.

But you still do it because you want to, and you can do it to your specification.

But I think you'll lose money if you ever choose to sell. And that might be on a different scale altogether.

Matt

 

I'm one to talk. I always put too much money into my cars. (Please don't tell my wife.) Case in point, I brought a 2005 C55 for $14k and then put another $14k into it. No modification, just fixing crap. But I like my cars to run the way they should run. My rationalization is $28k would probably be the first year depreciation on a new car. That my story and I'm sticking to it!

 

I have to admit I enjoy a good lynch mob as much as the next guy. The OP in the infamous Gremlin thread dug his own hole and I was happy to throw sand in after him. The problem I have with this thread is a lynch mob formed when no crime was committed. Unless being happy with your own life choices is a crime...

 

And a perfectly good rationalization it is. I say that because I use it myself.

Playing the sensibility card on a Ferrari forum makes about as much sense as playing the gas mileage card. If we had any sense we'd all be driving Camrys.

 

Just the thought of driving a Camry makes me want to puke!!!

Sid

 

We should get a gang together and head over to the Toyota forum.

Bwhahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Show them this:




https://www.facebook.com/alwaysacamry/


Sid

 

Now you're just illustrating my point. People are giving Craig a hard time when there are cars like this to be made fun of.

That's one half-assed Camry. Still not as ugly as a Solara convertible though.

It it time for cats yet?

 

I'd never give Craig a hard time. I mentioned earlier in the post that I think what he's doing is cool, and I'll probably do something similar when I officially retire. I like working on cars and the thought of taking a badly mangled (think Copart) Ferrari and doing something with it, strikes me as fun.

There's also the money factor. I'm at the point in life where spending $1.5Million for a car, that I'd be reluctant to drive, doesn't seem like fun to me. However, a near exact replica for $200K, that I can drive anywhere, at anytime, and thrash mercilessly -- does strike me as fun.

On the other hand, I'd shoot myself before ever getting into something like this:

Image Unavailable, Please Login



Now, I think it's time for Cats. I'll leave everyone with this:

Image Unavailable, Please Login

Sid

 

Well summarized, Mike!!

Matt

 

Craig has posted multiple times he plans to personally do much of the work, although I don't believe he posted a list so that's hard to analyze. If he can paint and plans to do all the body work and spray, he can save quite a bit yet I recall him saying the body work was being done by Bob, that could just the the panel fitment though.