My POSITIVE experience with Bob Norwood

Well come on down here pardner, we got a real live rodeo goin' all the time... http://arcadiarodeo.com/ 'bout 45 minutes north o' me. Take a little longer if we go by quarter horse.

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We got plenty of room out back in the horse barn for you to bunk down when you git here.

D

 

I actually think there is a simple choice that is at the heart of the concern (by some) about Bob's billing. To wit - my local dealer charges something like $170 per hour for their mechanics. I only pay for hands-on time at that rate. All other conversations, both with the tech's and with service management, are not billed. Nor is researching part numbers or availability. Its covered in their mark-up to their billing rate or parts price.

OTOH, Bob's rates are shockingly low (I realize some of his lower paid folks are doing more basic metal fabrication work, but even Bob's rate is half of the dealer). And it seems that Bob procures parts from third parties and doesn't mark them up 50-100% as many dealers do? So, he charged for (it seems) just about every task. This is an age-old decision for a business. Charge a high rate, but don't "nickel and dime", OR charge a low rate and bill for everything - only lawyers have perfected doing the best of both of those choices.

While I too see the "oddity" (irony) in the OP's thread title and actual posts - saying that Bob is great but I got billed for loads of little (annoying) things and for work well beyond scope, I can relate to the customer concluding "I'm not going to fight every little charge as the value is there in the end via my satisfaction with the product and via the low hourly rate".

I can point to one somewhat common example - my most recent experiences with that "settling" mindset was with a contractor finishing up my "dream mountain home". The final bills were driving me nuts (I thought the punch list items should be included in the house price, not extra and we went round and round on some things)...but I realized that they were a rounding error in the scheme of things and the house was beautiful and affordable to me...so I didn't let the annoying billing details stress me out and risk ruining my joy of getting the home and my health. (I also stipulate that I seem to care far less about money than pretty much every human I run across. Certainly not because I have a lot - I don't - but humans seem to really care about how much of their money they keep. Some to very intense levels)

 

True "punch list" items should be on the builder. Change orders are another thing entirely. But I completely understand your view. The older you get, the less time you have for bs.

Ps. Thanks for the tip about Highway 12 in Southern Utah. Wow!

 

Craig - I'm curios as I'm not sure I saw it posted in your thread or the others....

Before starting the project, did Bob discuss his billing practices with you in detail (invoicing for all time on the project, including discussions and part procurement time?) If the answer is "yes", I seen nothing wrong with his billing.

 

Not a Tribute, it's a replica. Interesting endeavor.......

 

Thanks for the explanation, Craig. I think Bob would be better served to disclose his practices right from the start, however, with weekly billing, at least if he did not, the customer would learn about how he works very quickly.

 

Craig couple of questions..
I’m sure you spent some time coming up with your own rough estimate of what this project would cost to complete? Would you possibly share that number?
For now, are you running a stock 308 engine? Were you able to use the engine from the donor vehicle?
Would a donor 360 engine/transmission/suspension adapt to one of these projects easier?Much better performance, with less hassle?

I’m certainly no fan of Bob Norwood but commend you for how you respond to some of the comments here. ( I haven’t helped either Lol. ) Would like to see you start an on going build thread! Best on your project!

 

I don’t think that anyone, including Rob, is questioning your earnest, honest intentions.

I do have to agreee with Rob in that probably most of us would have been dissatisfied with your experience. Calling your experience “positive” or even 90-odd-percent positive really comes across as you justifying the way you’re being treated.

Matt

 

Matt - respectfully, that's not my read on it at all. The OP (Craig) has been pretty level headed and provided much, detailed explanation to his postings. He seems pretty darn sincere to me

 

Agree. And I'll go one further-- anyone who would be dissatisfied with the treatment Craig has described on an open-ended project like this probably cannot be made happy

I do not understand the complaints about Norwood's billing. At the end of the day all that matters is whether or not he provides $1000 worth of value for every $1000 he invoices. How he details the invoice is irrelevant.

Mr. Norwood has completed the work Craig asked him to do. Craig is happy with both the work and the final invoice. How in the world can this be considered anything but a good thing???

 

He’s very sincere.

I’m just worried that he’s a little naive, and is justifying the money he’s putting into his project.

Matt

 

I think the difference in the two threads lies in this comment. You have a pretty straight forward conversion and a budget of $130k with an understanding of what you had when you bought your basket case.

The OP in the other thread feels like he was screwed by the original seller of his basket case because he didn’t get all of the parts he paid for. Is asking Bob to perform a conversion that is out of the ordinary (355 rear half) and is expecting it all to be done for under $100k! I understand that Bob lead him to believe that was the correct number but when you throw in Bob’s somewhat odd billing practices with the “scorched earth” feeling given the other OP by F-Chat’s favorite attorney from the initial sale it’s easy to understand his frustration. Bob hasn’t eased his mind in anyway through the process by being transparent either.

 

FWIW I wouldn’t go into a basket case conversion like this with any expectation under $200k and if I finished below $150k I’d be extatic regardless of how it got billed. We’ll have to see how happy this OP is if the bills add up to $230k when it’s finally done. I think there is still a bit of a honeymoon phase here because you are excited to have this project underway.

 

Your expectations, budget and understanding of the project are reasonable. You almost can’t go wrong. I can’t wait to see the finished car!

 

Thanks for sharing the new pics. Like you, I get a kick out of OE parts from the period. I like seeing the stamps and hand written notations on the backs of decades old parts.

Keep the updates coming!

 

Oh, my. $130k?

Just re-read your post #13 in this thread. Think about what your expectations were to stretch the car 4”. And then think of how much more it actually cost.

Don’t think that you got over a single bump in the road. That’s going to keep happening, on and on, with this project. There are going to be so many things to do while you’re already there, it’s going to add up at at the same rate as the stretch.

Be prepared, both emotionally and financially, to spend twice as much, or more, or else to sell it for a loss.

There’s a reason why these projects often sell unfinished.

I simply want your expectations to be realistic. I wish you the best of luck and success.

Matt

 

I'm curious.

I know this is a labor of love, not a search for value or profit, but what IS one of Bob's 288s worth when he's finishes with it? Are you going to be terminally under water on the car? Does that even matter? Or do you end up, if you do it right, with a saleable vehicle with value that at least matches its cost?

Feel free to pass on my question if I'm being too nosey.

D