My 1990 TR is in for service.. what should I do? | FerrariChat

My 1990 TR is in for service.. what should I do?

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by njcycleguy, Jun 4, 2020.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. njcycleguy

    njcycleguy Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 27, 2008
    785
    Northeast
    My 1990 TR is up at Pocono Sportscar with Jim for some nagging issues I've been meaning to have addressed - I have to say such a nice, responsive group of guys. Jim worked for FNA so I know the car is in the right hands. Looking forward to working with them.

    My car is a 1990 TR w/13k miles. With some limited exceptions that are always reverisble, I've never been a mod guy- but I am a factory upgrade guy. For example, if a 512TR had improved suspension bushings that can be retrofitted to the TR, I'd do that upgrade if mine on the TR were shot. You get the idea. (I would always keep all the original parts).

    So after doing a number of searches here on Fchat, I have a few questions that are summarized below.

    - My car has the original fusebox. I have no issues with it. Should I upgrade anyway?
    - I need to replace the foam under the engine compartment. I've read about lots of different options on the site but what's the current option? I don't like the silver/metal looking ones - I prefer a factory look in black.
    - One of my calipers has frozen and needs to be rebuilt - obviously it makes sense to do them at all this point, and also repaint the factory calipers - but is there an upgrade path to the 512TR brakes which I understand are much better?
    - My car has the factory exhaust - it's weak. Considering swapping it out and keeping the factory one for originality. What's the standard? Tubi? Capristo?
    - There are times where I do like to listen to the radio. I don't want a big aftermarket 80s car stereo system with amps, crossovers, subs, etc. I would like to just upgrade the factory speakers which are sh*t. They are 5 1/4, correct?
    - Shifting isn't all that smooth and Jim plans to correct that - however I am considering replacing the factory black knob with a Ricambi sourced metal shifter which I had on my 355 Spider. Will any knob on the Ricambi site work for the TR or are they model specific?
    - My rear view mirror is loose - new one is NLA - so I guess only option is a fix? Or is there an updated one that I can use?

    TIA

    -Ted
     
  2. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    25,035
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    #2 Steve Magnusson, Jun 4, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2020
    I've been very happy with the dark-grey-almost-black Aeroflex material, and think it's the best possible substitute yet found:

    https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/engine-compartment-foam-r-r.592736/page-2

    Clear proof that you need to drive more miles and more often ;)

    I'm almost positive that the lower speakers are not 5 1/4". My notes have the OD of the metal speaker frame being 6.5" with the (four) mounting holes 6.25" apart as measured across the diameter (and the magnet structure being 2.63" deep from the mounting surface). One point here is that the tweeters in the dash can fail, and then you'd have no high frequency, and the stock lower speaker grill wouldn't be too good for a two-way speaker. Anyway, just trying to make the point that for good stock performance it's tweeter+speaker, not just speaker.
     
  3. Zeff

    Zeff Formula Junior

    Oct 8, 2018
    678
    Cupertino, Ca
    Full Name:
    Ryan
    I think you should get the diff upgrade from Newman. If you need a clutch get it done. Now is the time if you were thinking of the exhaust upgrade. I’m currently doing the major, Kevlar clutch upgrade, Newman’s diff upgrade, Capristo exhaust from Yellow Compass (Mike). One Cvc joint will be replaced as well. But this is the time to get everything done. You don’t want that motor to have to come out again. Also inspect condition of starter/alternator and rebuild if needed. Replace any hoses that are bad.
     
  4. PA32Pilot

    PA32Pilot Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Mar 5, 2020
    1,758
    Glendora, CA
    Full Name:
    Jamie Kirk
    Do the differential if your doing the clutch. Newman is making another batch soon.

    For exhaust I went full Larini. Should have it soon.

    I’m on the fence painting the calipers. If anything just match factory color.
     
  5. xplodee

    xplodee Formula 3

    Jan 3, 2017
    1,101
    Allentown, PA
    Full Name:
    Tim
    Your engine isn’t coming out for the clutch so I don’t understand the logic in doing a diff. The diff is something recommended but will run you about $5-6k+ on top or the major if you're paying someone else to do it.

    Original steel calipers were zinc plated with yellow chromate which looks gold. Painting would be a superior coating but less original.

    Exhaust is a personal preference.
     
  6. njcycleguy

    njcycleguy Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 27, 2008
    785
    Northeast
    Thank you all for the replies- not doing a full engine out as it was already done not too long ago. But good to know about the diff upgrade.

    Interesting on the calipers being Zinc. I would prefer to keep them OEM looking. Has anyone done this?
     
    Natkingcolebasket69 likes this.
  7. Mr.Chairman

    Mr.Chairman F1 Rookie

    Mar 21, 2008
    2,987
    New Jersey
    Full Name:
    Robbie
    Greetings and hope all is well. Great choice bringing vehicle to Jim at Pocono.

    1. Upgrade fuse box. If your planning on driving her you def need to upgrade the fuse box. The high draw circuits need to be isolated. Modify your box by sending to Dave Helms at Scuderia Rampante. Will keep things reliable.

    2. Have calipers rebuilt. There are a few companies that rebuild calipers to look like new. Me personally I would not paint the caliper a color. They are an ugly caliper to begin with. Natural OE finish looks best - IMO. If you have cash to throw around upgrade with Brembo kit - pricey and I think you would have to upgrade the wheels because they wont tuck under the factory wheel.

    3. Exhaust. I think the important thing to remember is that your car was equipped with 4 cats. Two pre cats and two main cats. Changing over to straight pipes is the way to go. She will breath and you dont have to worry about throwing any check engine codes. Another benefit is that slow down lights will be a thing of the past as well. Then a nice muffler like Tubi, Capristo, etc. will sound great. I had a Stebro set up. Was a ***** to fit and the customer service was horrible but I got it, installed it, and honestly nothing sounded like it. She would sing. Its getting harder and harder to find straight pipes but worth the time and effort.

    4. Clutch - dont really understand how owners are burning thru clutches. Its the easiest clutch to operated. You can literally release the clutch without applying any gas and she will engage, even in second gear. Yes she is stiff and notchy sometimes but once warm she should be smooth. Royal Purple Max Gear with NO additive was my choice. Have Jim check the shift shaft seal to see if she is leaking. If doing a clutch I would stay away from the Kevlar - Its a ***** to break in and if you dont drive her often the break in process will never happen. Me I would get a new clutch pack. Yes expensive but it will last if you drive her properly. Hill engineering throw bearing and about $100.00 or so to change EVERY o-ring and seal in the clutch housing. Then in the future if you need another clutch for whatever reason you can rebuild. Why rebuild a clutch that is 30 years old. Rather have a new package and rebuild in future but really a clutch if driven correctly can last you 50-60 thousand miles. She is easy to drive. Dont overthink her. The shifter is not your c*ck. Its more the p*ssy. Gentle persuation with your fingers will get you smooth gear changes. When cold start out in first then move to third skipping second. If you ever have trouble getting into gear because it feels like she doesn't want to go do not force. Move to 3rd then to the gear you want to be in. To clarify you dont have to put in 3rd release the clutch etc. Lets say your in 4th slowing down and your the type that does not downshift to slow down. So you want to go from 4th to 2nd. if 2nd if not engaging move shifter to 3rd then 2nd. If your at a stop sign and she does not want to engage in 1st. Move to 3rd then first. Remember I'm not saying to start in 3rd, I'm saying just to move shifter to 3rd with clutch depressed then to 1st. She will go in like butter. Never force. Jim can adjust the linking but you still have to play with her.

    5. Big rounder shift knob is nice. I had one and it felt much nicer in hand. Nice touch to upgrade.

    6. Foam - read above response. Steve's recommendations are solid and his reputation on this forum is top notch. He may be a bit frugal but he knows his stuff.

    7. Suspension bushings - if they are bad replace. Replacing with original is the way to go. They will last 20-30 years. Urethane bushing are really hard and can squeak, its not necessary. If you have money to burn bead blast and powder coat suspension components. Send shocks out to Koni for refurb. . New hardware etc.

    8. Tires - get a fresh set if your tires are old. Hard to find, sometimes you have to wait for a new run but I cant tell you how much a new set of rubber changes the ride. Check you date code on tires - if more then 7 years old they are garbage. 5-7 years is shelf life for tires. When buying tires ask for the date code. You dont want to buy new tires that are already a few years old.

    9. Hoses. The black braided hoses in the engine bay are horrible. They get hard and crack. Change those hoses out with fresh ones. Your hoses are probable 30 years old. Braided fuel vapor hoses are the ones to really worry about. Even the ones to the vapor canister.

    10. Starter solenoid. A must. You dont need to change the starter. Just the solenoid. Check the cross reference thread. Get one and have Jim install. Best cheap fix and you will never have the no start issue when hot ever again. If you dont change the solenoid if you find yourself in a situation that she is clicking and the starter is not turning. Place a wet cold rag on solenoid for 30 seconds or so. She will fire up after that. Remember the solenoid will be hot. Make the rag thick enough or wear gloves so you dont burn your hands.

    11. Ignition (spark plug) wires. Send your existing wires to Dave Helms at Scuderia Rampante. He will rebuild then with the Taylor 7MM wires. The last wires you will ever need. Good like trying to find Taylor 7MM wires - Dave bought all remaining stock years ago. You better hope he has some left for you.

    Shes a great car but use your head. These cars hate hate hate when its hot and humid. The summer when temps are high in NJ is the worst time to drive her. These cars love cool crisp air. Ideal time to drive is spring, fall and winter until the first salt is down on roads. Once salt was down season was over for me. The winter was the best. These cars love cold air. Get out of the habit of letting her warm up for 30 minutes (if you do so). Its something I will never understand. Fire her up and as soon as the temp needle moves get going and start the gear box warm up process.

    Trying to remember everything and its been a very long time. Hope this info helps. When you get her back drive her like the b*tch that she is. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. The Chairman has spoken.

    R
     
  8. Natkingcolebasket69

    Natkingcolebasket69 F1 World Champ

    Great answer!
    I totally agree with the fuse box being done. Will save a lot of hassle.
    I’d check my alternator too whilst in there, not extremely strong.
    I’d also keep the caliper new and I’d not upgrade to Brembo because you need to upgrade wheels etc and I personally dislike modded TR
    As far as the exhaust if you get a catback Capristo you are good, otherwise buy or make test pipes to replace the precats. I personally kept the cats although I had them off at one point: the gas smell was just too bad...

    As far as the clutch; just like chairman said easiest thing to operate; unless needed not sure I’d have it done...

    The diff... still on the fence on that... is it a weak point, no doubt. Preventative maintenance for sure is a good thing...But every time I speak to Roselli who is arguably the busiest mechanic of Ferrari in the South Bay (San Jose) he doesn’t seem to think it’s just a week point but also how you drive... either way if you have the cash do it!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    turbo-joe and V4NG0 like this.
  9. V4NG0

    V4NG0 Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 14, 2018
    694
    Full Name:
    Charles Edward Cheese
    Great list by Mr. Chairman, but shouldn’t the water pump be a focus as well?
     
    Zeff likes this.
  10. Mr.Chairman

    Mr.Chairman F1 Rookie

    Mar 21, 2008
    2,987
    New Jersey
    Full Name:
    Robbie
    Should have been done when belt service was performed. If it wasn't thats a big no no.

    R
     
  11. V4NG0

    V4NG0 Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 14, 2018
    694
    Full Name:
    Charles Edward Cheese
    Right, but is it a direct replacement or is there a Dave Helms-like upgrade that should be done?
     
  12. njcycleguy

    njcycleguy Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 27, 2008
    785
    Northeast
    Thank you Mr Chairman, much appreciated! And to others as well.

    I purchased this TR in 2013. Prior to my purchase it had won a Ferrari concours event so keeping the car as OEM as possible is important to me. The car has a diary it came with that the original owner purchased it started- which has been updated by the two owners prior to me. This is certainly not the TR to be mod'd but again tasteful preferably OEM upgrades that are reversible is my goal.

    On the shifting, great point on always being smooth, not jamming the car into gear - I've been driving manual cars for almost 30 years and have taught many - my advise for anyone, Ferrari or not, is to always be smooth but direct. The issue I'm having is that I have to heel and toe the car on both upshift and downshift right now to get the car to slide into gear smoothly. Jim recommended the Royal Purple and some adjustment to the linkage which I'm hopeful will solve the problem.

    Agree on the clutch as well, very easy clutch to modulate - and launch from a stop - with no input from the gas pedal. I do not plan on replacing it as the clutch operation is perfectly smooth and linear, still at the bottom of the pedal. This car is not driven hard nor has had any clutch drops. Maybe at the next major as a sort of "while you're in there".

    I know the brakes aren't pretty, but again, I want to keep things OEM - I've already asked Jim's guys if we can get them re-zinc'd. I know I could certainly go to Brembo but that's too extreme of a mod for me.

    The tires are literally brand new - had them put on right before I brought it up to Jim.

    Thanks again for the suggestions - will def use some of them!
     
    Natkingcolebasket69 likes this.
  13. ago car nut

    ago car nut F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 29, 2008
    5,246
    Madison Ohio
    Full Name:
    David A.
    Were the shifter bushings replaced? Replacing bushings and correct adjustment makes a big difference.
     
    turbo-joe likes this.
  14. xplodee

    xplodee Formula 3

    Jan 3, 2017
    1,101
    Allentown, PA
    Full Name:
    Tim
    Zinc plate with yellow chromate will be very easy and inexpensive during a brake rebuild, don't worry about it at all. the only sad part is the finish won't last too long. Maybe powder coat clear over the top? I'm considering that when I do mine.
     
  15. Mr.Chairman

    Mr.Chairman F1 Rookie

    Mar 21, 2008
    2,987
    New Jersey
    Full Name:
    Robbie
    No special replacement - one must be careful. Two variants exists and some get them mixed up. Experienced guys know the difference and its also by year. Its the cars last in the first run and early in the later run that get mixed up. Ferrari put in the car what they had.

    R
     
    V4NG0 likes this.
  16. Mr.Chairman

    Mr.Chairman F1 Rookie

    Mar 21, 2008
    2,987
    New Jersey
    Full Name:
    Robbie
    Good stuff. Rev matching is a must on the downshifts. Its just what she likes. Jim will get her adjusted right. Royal Purple works great. I had it in my car and Jim was my mechanic that worked on her. Crazy as it sounds a good wire brush will probably bring your calipers back to beautiful condition. The finish is very durable. When I rebuilt my brakes I had a wire wheel for the calipers and got stuck with one which I sent out. Years later the caliper I sent out was the one that rusted on the surface. The ones that I cleaned up stayed perfect. Get some new pins and pin plates. Cleans up the job and keep pins as spares. You never know if you need one or to help out a fellow fchatter. Tell Jim Robbie says hello. He is a top notch mechanic that know his stuff. Your lucky to live in an area where he can work on your car. I'll say this. Two types of ownership. Preservation - not for me. Keep car original and don't mess with it. The other Enthusiast - mod the car to get her reliable and drive the snot out of her. That was me. I drove her everywhere. No right or wrong just two different approaches. I think its difficult to drive and have a concour car reliable. Not possible in my opinion. Go the enthusiast route - f*ck the money, the trophies and the value. Drive her. I don't regret one day. I put almost 15,000 miles on her in 4 1/2 years and I enjoyed every mile. Every mile! Hope all goes well with your service and enjoy which ever direction you go.

    R
     
  17. curtisc63

    curtisc63 Formula 3
    Owner

    Dec 13, 2005
    2,289
    Maryland
    Full Name:
    Curtis Campbell
    Jim McGee is a great choice to work on your TR. He will do what needs to be done and stand behind his work.

    Of all the questions you posed, the most important is probably the fuse box. Get it done. Dave Helms did mine several years ago after I had my cooling fan circuit go Chernobyl on me stuck in traffic one summer day... Until that time I had had no issues with my box. Yes, there was some discoloration on the White connectors prior to the melt down; but, it was not as bad as many photos that have been posted. It is a sound investment and alleviates a lot of worries moving forward.
     
  18. njcycleguy

    njcycleguy Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 27, 2008
    785
    Northeast
    There's also an in-between the preservationist and enthusiast - I'm both without being an extremist on either side. I'm not a hardcore track rat who beats the snot of my cars. But I'm also not a put in the garage and let it sit there and collect dust guy. I also happen to live in a climate where only 6 months out of the year is prime driving season.

    It's funny a younger guy knew I had a Pista and wanted to see it. He was talking about why I should add a McLaren to my collection because in his eyes it's the best modern day supercar. And then he looked at the TR and an E30 M3 in my garage and was like "what's with the old cars". I tried explaining the signifigance but they won't - or don't - get it.

    I explained to him that when you're a kid you stare at the poster and pour over the Car and Drivers (in my case a TR poster) thinking "if only someday I get (whatever) car, I'll drive it every day and wax it every night". Then life happens - and faster than you ever expected - school, businesses, houses, marriage, kids. Before you know it you're 40, you find yourself staring at your collection of half a dozen cars you lusted over when you were 15, along with some new stuff that while awesome doesn't generate the same feelings as the old stuff, and not enough garage space - even with lifts. Then you realize that next to your kids the most important thing in life is time. And making the most of it.

    I wish I had more time to drive my cars - so Mr Chairman if you, or Jim, (or anyone else) can figure out how to add a flux capacitor to the TR, that's a mod I'll def go for.

    I will tell Jim you said hello.
     
  19. Natkingcolebasket69

    Natkingcolebasket69 F1 World Champ

    Well said!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    turbo-joe likes this.
  20. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
    8,866
    southwest germany and thailand
    Full Name:
    romano schwabel
    unfortunately the time is getting out for me also. so many projects and so less time - and I´m proudly single and have no family ;)
     

Share This Page