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Movie - Ford vs. Ferrari

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by Ferrari 308 Vetro, Jun 3, 2019.

  1. Shark01

    Shark01 F1 Rookie

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    LOL...it was a solid film made for the public with very good reviews that made good money. A win all around.

    Are you sure you weren't watching the Borat vs Ferrari movie?
     
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  3. Nospinzone

    Nospinzone F1 Veteran

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    I'm waiting for Ford vs. Ferrari The Sequel.

    My money is on Ferrari this time! :D
     
  4. Dino2010

    Dino2010 F1 Rookie
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    Have a look at movies like "Grand Prix" or "Le Mans".
    Have you ever seen an interview with Enzo Ferrari? And babyface Matt Damon trying to play Shelby? What a comedy.
     
  5. Dino2010

    Dino2010 F1 Rookie
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    Not for that reason, because of the fact it can't do any better. The idiot who casted these actors has no idea who Ferrari or Shelby were. The guy playing Enzo is the same actor who played Tano in the very good Sicilian mob series La Piovra. He was well casted for that. You need something else to take the role of an icon. If Marlon Brando would still have been alive he could have done it. De Niro eventually. And Matt Damon as Shelby? What a joke.
     
  6. papou

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    It was not made for Fchat and it’s users it was made for Saturday night movie folks, Highest Box office race car movie in history.
     
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  8. Nospinzone

    Nospinzone F1 Veteran

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    Correct.

    The movie wasn't made for enthusiasts, it was made for the general public. If they made the movie historically accurate and used unskilled actors who looked like the actual characters and eliminated the race scenes, all of 5 or 6 hundred people would have paid to see the movie.

    The two things that bugged me the most was Enzo never attended a race, and the drivers going 200 mph side by side and staring at each other.

    The key is, it's a movie, not a documentary.
     
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  9. papou

    papou Formula 3
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    Bingo he never attended races in case he was liable for a death, to quote Kieth Richard "it’s only rock an roll baby"
     
  10. LBBP

    LBBP Formula Junior

    Purely entertainment. The best part was the film tried to give some homage to Ken Miles. Given his talent it was long over due and has sparked renewed interest in his life.
     
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  11. INRange

    INRange F1 Veteran
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    I like both those movies for different reasons. Grand Prix was made in 1966 and Le Mans was made in 1971 well before the digital age. I never met Enzo or Shelby even though I have owned one of Shelby's cars for the past 40+ years. That said if you take the time to watch: The 24 Hour War https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4875844/ I believe you will see where you are wrong regarding the story quality of Ferrari versus Ford. Unless you don't believe what Shelby said himself, as well as Phil Remington, Mario Andretti and a host of others with first hand knowledge .

    Saying that they got it "100% wrong" is just rubbish. A number of great actors could have played Shelby. Shelby was 43 in 1966. Matt is 50. Part of what made this story work on the big screen was the chemistry between Damon and Bale since they are close friends in real life.

    I liked the script and how it was directed. They told a great story about a racing friendship in an analog age. It is not a documentary as the 24Hour War is meant to be.

    Based on revenues to date.....it already is the most commercially successful race car movie that has been made.
     
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  13. SVCalifornia

    SVCalifornia Formula 3

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    And I like it, like it, yes, I do!

    SV
     
  14. Big Swole

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    I really enjoyed the movie. Saw it in the theater when it came out and watched it multiple times since then.

    I know some of the driving scenes were a bit goofy, but still fun to watch.
     
  15. Dino2010

    Dino2010 F1 Rookie
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    #162 Dino2010, Nov 10, 2020
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 10, 2020
    Entertainment, commercial succesfull,.... are these good reasons for telling a story that doesn't come close to what really happened?
    An easy copy/paste from whichcar.com.au gives this:
    1. They left out an entire year of Le Mans
    Perhaps the biggest omission in Ford vs Ferrari is an entire year of competition. The film depicts Ford losing in its first attempt at the great endurance race, before returning for the ’66 triumph. Fact is that the Blue Oval stumbled twice, in both ’64 and ‘65, meaning the filmmakers chopped out an entire year of development altogether.

    2. The on-track battle at dawn never took place
    The climax of the film is punctuated by a tense on-track battle between Ken Miles and his Ferrari rivals. In the film, Miles must fight back from being a lap down on Ferrari driver Lorenzo Bandini throughout the night, and pass him on track in daylight hours.
    However, in the actual ’66 race, the #21 Ferrari was limping around in 12th place by 3am.
    It was actually the #3 Ford GT40 of Dan Gurney and Jerry Grant that led the race come morning, engaging in a dogfight Miles and Hume, against Ford’s strict team orders. In the 18th hour the #3 blew a head gasket, leaving Miles in charge of the race, two laps up on his nearest rival and teammate.

    3. Ken Miles and Carroll Shelby never got into a fist fight
    Throughout the film Miles and Shelby get into a bunch of physical altercations, but as far as anyone that worked on the team can recall, these never happened. These were likely added to bring some tension into the relationship for the film, but we think they were a tad unnecessary.

    4. Ford didn’t object to Miles driving at Le Mans ‘66
    Much of the film centres around a theme of Men vs The Man, with the renegades of Shelby and Miles in a constant strategic civil war with the suits that run Ford. However, this is largely overblown.
    In Ford vs Ferrari the Blue Oval objects to Miles taking part in Le Mans ’66 on account of his brash nature. The truth is that while Miles missed out on taking part in the ’64 running with Ford, he raced in ’65 (failing to finish due to a gearbox failure), and was a sure thing for the ’66 event.
    Oh, and Shelby never bet his business on Miles winning Daytona as part of a wager with Henry Ford II that would allow Miles to race in France

    5. Carroll Shelby never took Henry Ford II for a joyride in a GT40
    As much as we wish this was true, it just never happened. In the film, Carrol Shelby takes Henry Ford II for a joyride in his creation, which results in the industry giant bursting into a mixture of sobbing and laughter. It’s depicted as part of a ploy intended to secure Miles a race seat for Le Mans ’66. But as we mentioned above, Ford didn’t oppose the British driver taking part, making the scene unnecessary.
    Secondly, it is highly unlikely that the executive of one of America’s largest car makers was taken for a joyride in a race car sans helmet. Safety regulations were pretty loose back then, but not that loose.
    The final nail in the factual coffin for this scene is there is no record of it ever happening. You’d think if Henry Ford II jumped into a GT40 someone would have noted it.

    6. Much of the technology used to build the GT40 is overlooked
    If you took Ford vs Ferrari as wholesale truth, you’d probably believe that the GT40 was almost exclusively developed on an American airfield.
    But this misses much of the cutting-edge technology of the time that was used to develop the legendary racer. This included engine dynamometers that ran motors through simulations of the race, which at the time was something straight out of science fiction.

    7. Lee Iacocca didn’t negotiate the deal with Ferrari
    While Ford did attempt to buy Ferrari at the start of 1963, it didn’t happen quite as the film depicts. Firstly, Lee Iacocca wasn’t part of the team of lawyers sent to Italy to ink the deal.
    Secondly, there was no cunning espionage that resulted in a counter bid on Ferrari by Fiat. While the Italian company did eventually buy Ferrari, that wasn’t until 1969. At the time of the film Fiat granted Ferrari a cash stipend as thanks for elevating the stature of Italian cars internationally.
    What prompted the deal with Ford to be torpedoed was simple, Enzo Ferrari didn’t want to give up control of his race team. Legend has it; he circled the clause in the paperwork, wrote ‘this will not do’, walked to lunch with his solitary lawyer, and never returned.

    8. Enzo Ferrari didn’t attend the race
    As the patriarch of Maranello, it would make sense for Enzo Ferrari to be a Le Mans in 1966 to watch his team defeat Ford once more. In the film he is depicted as stoically overseeing proceedings in pitlane, even having a verbal jab at his American equivalent Henry Ford II.
    But this is a glaring historical mistake, as Enzo Ferrari didn’t attend Le Mans ’66, meaning he wouldn’t have been present to give a gracious tip of the hat to Ken Miles come race end.

    9. Changing from second to fourth gear probably isn’t a strategy that’ll win Daytona for you
    One of the more gripping action sequences shows Ken Miles on the final lap of Daytona, attempting to overtake Dan Gurney, also in a GT40. Aside from the fact that he won the ’66 race by eight laps and the stadium floodlights depicted weren’t installed until 1990, Miles’ winning strategy appears to be to shift up to gears to pip his rival Ford on the line. Given that a 7-litre GT40 has a four-speed gearbox, he’d clearly made his way to the head of the pack by driving the thing in second gear. Unlikely.

    10. An inconvenient truth?
    The movie claims that Shelby was the first American to have won Le Mans. While he did win the 1959 race in an Aston Martin, both Phil Hill and Luigi Chinetti were American who had previously stood on the top step of the podium at La Sarthe, in 1958 and 1949 respectively. The reason they were both erased from history for the movie? Maybe because both drove Ferraris to victory.

    For those who never heard Ferrari speak, just listen to this:
     
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  16. INRange

    INRange F1 Veteran
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    What gives with Australians criticizing a great American story? They weren't there....they didn't know Enzo or Shelby. Shelby loved telling stories especially embellishing them for the press. His whole schtick about wearing overalls to race was purely self-promotion. No one was better at the time making things up to get what he wanted.

    Again....being a hater doesn't get you far in life. Watch the documentary and then watch the movie again.

    There are hundreds of stories that Shelby told most of them probably had some element of truth to them. A number of script writers actually met with him before he died to capture the stories he liked to tell. His heart condition was true. Yes, he painted one of the first Cobras 5 times to fool the press. Yes, he sold the same car to multiple customers. Yes, they tore the Ford tech out of the GT-40 and used a ball of yarn to solve aerodynamic problems.

    It would have been interesting to see the first campaign in 1965 covered but it would be lost on most non-car viewers. Shelby tells the story that Ford Racing changed the head bolts before the race in 1965 and every single car had head gasket problems and a few had transmission problems. Miles didn't race at LeMans in 1965 and there must have been a reason. The end result was the 1965 campaign was a complete disaster other than one of the Gt-40s setting a high speed record. I'm not sure dwelling on it would have made the movie any better.

    Ford did take control of Shelby American in 1967......much to the chagrin of pure Shelby fanatics. Shelby's group of West Coast hot rodders just was not scalable to Ford's expectations.

    I know far less about Enzo other than the interviews he gave. He also seems to be a man focused on what he wanted to accomplish. There is a story that Shelby tells about Enzo wanting him to drive for Ferrari. I'm sure they had more Shelby stories than could fit into 5 movies. Great movie stories are not documentaries.
     
  17. LVP488

    LVP488 F1 Rookie

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    All reports are that Miles actually raced at Le Mans in '65, which could not save his GT40 from gearbox problems that led him to retire.
    Personnally I believe the real story is great and I do not think trying to make the movie more attractive by inventing stories is a good idea.
     
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  18. INRange

    INRange F1 Veteran
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    You are correct. Miles and McLaren in the Number 1 car lasted 4 hours then the gearbox went south.
     
  19. Dino2010

    Dino2010 F1 Rookie
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    Man, what are you trying to say???
    Because the source is Australian, they got less rights to express their doubts about the credibility of the movie? Because "they weren't there?" What kind of nonsense is this? People investigate, all over the world.
    The guys who concocted this movie could as well have based their screenplay on facts, not on fantasy, or on what sounds good.
    Did you ever search for the 1965 Le Mans results, btw?
    You don't react on the facts that are nothing but the truth.
    Read some books about Enzo Ferrari, it will be good for you and you'll hopefully get a correct idea about who that great man was. You eventually will find out that the acting, talking, expressions, rhythm of the clownesque neurotic in the film doesn't even come close to whom Ferrari really was.
     
  20. Statler

    Statler F1 World Champ
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    It was fiction. Was it ever sold as anything else? Used a historical event to tell a story.
     
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  21. TheMayor

    TheMayor Eight Time F1 World Champ
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    There are plenty of documentaries on the subject. This is a movie for mass appeal. As a movie its not too bad. As history its fake.

    If I wanted to see a documentary, I can do that on youtube. I wanted to see a movie (aka: art) for its entertainment value.
     
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  22. Nospinzone

    Nospinzone F1 Veteran

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    OK, this will settle it.

    Tie the director to the back of a GT40 for the 24 hour duration. Lie Matt Damon and Christian Bale across the finish line until all cars have run over them. Have the producers post a mea culpa in all major publications in the world. Destroy all copies of the movie so it can never be viewed again, except for copies of those who like it.

    Will that make everybody happy?! :D
     
  23. colombo2cam

    colombo2cam Formula Junior

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    no we still want to piss and moan and frankly it is pissing me off that you want to take that away.. GEEEEZ
     
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  24. RedTaxi

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    Thought it was a great movie. Fairly inaccurate but still great. Wasn't that surprised that these 2 fellow countrymen of mine barely got a mention.

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  25. LamboLover

    LamboLover Formula 3

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    That Aussie fact-check just seems really over analytical. We get it, it's not the real, as-it-actually-happened story.

    But to go as far as to make a note about what year flood lights were installed at Daytona or say that Henry Ford II wouldn't have gotten into a GT40 without a helmet followed by, "Actually, Henry Ford II didn't get in a GT40 at all" is just beating the film for the sake of beating it. For a review that seems to have paid so much attention to every detail as well, the comment that Miles & Shelby, "get into a bunch of physical altercations" is wrong. IIRC, they did get into a scuffle in front of Ken's home that wasn't even all that serious; Shelby at 1 point grabbed a can and dropped it to hit Ken in the head with a loaf of bread which tells anyone they were never intending to actually hurt each other.

    I enjoyed the film for what it is. To me, it's like Gone in 60 Seconds, any time it's on, I switch to it & instantly watch it til' the end b/c it's an entertaining movie that appeals to my love for cars. The only difference is I usually flip channels after Ken & Shelby leave LeMans as Ken's death with his son nearby hits home a little too hard.
     
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  26. TheMayor

    TheMayor Eight Time F1 World Champ
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    #173 TheMayor, Nov 17, 2020
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    Didn't fit the "Shelby vs Ford" scenario, which is what this movie is really about.

    If anything this movie makes Ford Motor Company look petty, vindictive, bureaucratic, and only interested in pushing tin instead of advancing motor racing. It doesn't give credit to many who contributed to the victory, including the other teams other than Shelby and the UK engineers.

    And the "villains" at Ford depicted in the movie are in direct conflict with Shelby's own interviews of the principal players at Ford, who spoke of them in the highest regard.

    But as a movie, its pretty darn good entertainment. Just leave the facts at the door and watch the story that's in front of you while you eat your popcorn.
     
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  27. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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    Never let the truth get in the way of a good story.
     
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  28. TheMayor

    TheMayor Eight Time F1 World Champ
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    Its always "good vs evil". You have to have heroes, villains and a conflict to fight over -- even if you have to make them up.

    That's Hollywood babe!
     
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