Having a conversation with a fellow F chatter, we approached the subject of morality and multiple sex partners at once. It was suggested that certain human beings have innate needs that cannot really be changed. They are engrained with such, and in order for them to happy, such needs must be met. Thus I pose to you, in a serious manner, how come society says having sex with multiple partners in one setting is wrong? Does it really offend your moral sensibilities? Is it wrong, in a sense that doing drugs may be wrong (in some people's eyes), or is it worse/better than that? The reason I ask, it seems there are women who are completely appalled at the idea and think one is immoral for sharing such thoughts. Fair enough, everyone has their opinions. However, there are other women who are perfectly happy to partake and think of it as normal, similar to going out for a movie on a Friday night. Aside from your initial perception that some of these women are "sluts" (not necessarily imo), why do you think certain parts of our society is willing to accept such behavior and other parts are not? I am not necessarily talking about wealth or upper and lower class, but just different segments. Are we taught as children sex is intimate and with only person? What about people who have many sex partners in their lives (albeit one at a time)? How are they different than people who engage in multiple partners at one time? Curious what your views are on such subject matter.
I don't particularly have the desire for an orgy, er, sex with multiple partners in one setting, myself but I don't think of it as wrong. Id imagine that the reason the vast majority of women think its wrong is because of feelings that it detracts from/destroys their personal relationship with their boyfriend/husband. Men think its wrong because women have trained them so. Thats my story and I'm sticking to it.
Here's my take on it. Don't make commitments you can't keep. Period. I've had the pleasure of two women at once and have dated more than one woman at one time as well but, once I make a commitment to one that's it. I keep it. I don't cheat. My morality isn't based upon a religious foundation. It just comes down to right and wrong. If you say you're trustworthy and dependable in one part of your life why shouldn't you be held to the same high standards in other parts. I don't buy in to the whole "slut" double standard either. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Lets put it this way. If I had to choose between a girl who's had 60 sex partners in her life and 8 of them were boyfriends whom she never cheated on and another who's only had 8 partners, 4 of whom where boyfriends and cheated on the 4 of them.... I'll take the first girl thank you. The number of sexual partners you have has nothing to do with whether you're a good trustworthy person. As far as how we're brought up... You bet we're brought up to think sex is bad! You have to remember this country was founded by people even the British thought were too uptight... "please leave, there's land across the way.. now go." The Christian right would have everyone wait until marriage until having sex. And then without any kind of contraception... at least that's still the Catholic Church's stance. Masturbation, don't even bring it up. See! You just cringed when you read the word didn't you?! This is a country that has such a problem with men loving each other many would like a constitutional ban on same sex marriage. For the record I have many gay friends and my brother is gay as well. But, if two women kiss.....WWWOOOHOOOO! Break out the Budweiser! There is a tremendous double standard that comes down to men being afraid and uncomfortable about their sexuality. Terms like "slut" and "whore" are used to demean and to try and control women's sexual behavior by making their sexual activity outside of marriage seem unacceptable by society. But, it's perfectly acceptable for a man to do it. Then he's a "stud." Now go read SavageLove's advice column: http://www.theonionavclub.com/savagelove/index.php?issue=4104 I'm going to go look at the Bikini thread...
Some people are just more sexually open-minded and expressive. Have you seen any of the recent Michael Jackson specials? I mean, between his dad, the uberfreak, and being a Jehovah's Witness, you begin to understand why he's such a sexually confused "adult". Our country has always leaned towards the repressed side of the sexual issue. Unfortunately, we seem to be breaking out of it by embracing a slacker culture that praises pimp/ho/trash behavior. So, now the big issue is about kids having sex waaay too young. I see nothing wrong with multiple consensual partners, but it's amazing how f'ed up the issue can become when you start analyzing peoples' sexuality and what made them that way.
Sex to me is a special thing that you and your partner share ... that is the glue to your relationship. It is great to have something completely personal that only you share, and once you make that commitment to that person that is how it should be IMO. Now if you are just playing the clubs, etc. and not found that special person ... er, you can do what ever you can live with That commitment and solid relationship IS really important once kids get involved. It even made my step kids much more settled with my relationship with their mother, when we got married. It makes conversations with their mates at school much simplier ... kids don't really like the 'Oh he is just my mums latest fnck' sort of stigma Pete
I agree 100%. Especially on the "embracing a slacker culture that praises pimp/ho/trash behavior. So, now the big issue is about kids having sex waaay too young".
Were all sexual-- some choose to act on it and tell everyone, others act on it and keep it a secret. Youre deluding yourself if you think that everyone practices what they preach. Ive generally found that the ones who are open about their sexuality arent molesting children, hiding their homosexuality, or have a penchant for beastiality. Repression is a very strong drug can skewer your views and morality over time.. ask any alter boy. These things always rise to the top in some form or another. -Chris
here's one that applies better to the topic at hand (savaglove) http://www.theonionavclub.com/savagelove/index.php?issue=4105
Ryan, i don't know how well this relates to your topic of discussion, but... A while back, i read an article (Reader's Digest, i think) where they stated that scientific studies showed that humans MAY BE genetically predisposed to have multiple partners throughout life... Ergo, being married to one person and remaining faithful to that person isn't tough due to temptation, perse, rather it's tough because we MIGHT be genetically predisposed to "branch out" so to speak...
Hey Carbon, how are you buddy? Long time no talk. Hope all is well in your neck of the woods. Your article does relate to the topic at hand. I actually have read/heard about something like that, though not in readers digest. However, if we are genetically disposed to mulitple partners like some of these studies suggest, then is it religion that is not allowing that? I am just curious to learn why is that barrier in this society, and who really decides right versus wrong. I am glad you don't think of it as wrong. Though everybody has their own opinion. Wrong or right, I am curious more to the why part of the question. I do agree with your reasoning with women. I will give you one example. We will call her woman C. C wasn't into multiple partners/swinging lifestyle, but because her bf of 2 years was into it, decided to go. While there, she enjoyed herself, as far as the voyueristic aspect of it. She didn't mind the fondling and what not. She didn't mind her bf with other people. However, she wasn't willing to have intercourse (understably so for her first time) with other men. One thing led to other, and amongst many people, C ended up having intercourse. She was fine then. On the drive way, she was weeping the whole way, and crying. Her bf at the time, not realizing what was wrong, asked her. She said she felt guilty. She didn't mind her bf with other women, but she felt like she cheated on her bf. They went back 2 other times, but she was never with another man, as far as penetration goes. I say the store to illustrate a point. I do think women tend to be more territorial at times, and doesn't want to be with other men in such settings. That seems to be the majority in the swinger lifestyle (I am sure other F chat members can give their opinions, as I know a few others who practice this lifestyle vigorously). What does committment have to do with the topic at hand? You automatically assumed that having multiple partners at once is "cheating." I think you jumped the gun, and I completely disagree with you. This post isn't about having orgies allthe time or the fun or lack there of in it or lack of committment or cheating. It is more about the swinger lifestyle (many partners at once) and societys view towards it. It is ok for you think it is cheating, but not everyone shares the same view as you. Most of these places only cater to couples, who have been together for long periods of time, and mostly married. These aren't your "lets go to a club and F some chick" kind of people. These are your doctors/lawyers/business owners, who have a more open minded lifestyle, not your average dorm 3 some. So save me your lecture on committments that I can make and keep. According to you, if you have multiple partners you are suddenly not trustworthy and dependable? What are you smoking, bro? Nobody here is doing anything behidn anyones back. The female is always aware of such places and are actively participating. I have recently run into some relationships, where the women don't want to partake (which is ok), and I was curious to the morality behind it. I do agree with you that there is a sad double standard in your society. It sucks for women, and if we are open minded enough, maybe in 100 years, it won't be like that anymore. I have not seen the M. Jackson specials. However, in no way do I advocate molesting children or having any thing to do with that. We are certainly talking about consenting adults here (21+) As far as kids having sex way too young. Well kids are certainly maturing way earlier nowadays. But my friends were having sex when they were 13-14 all the time. I know of kids nowadays having sex in similar ages. Is that too young? Dunno. I don't like to judge, given my own behavior. Hey Pete, how are you bro? Hope all is well down under. Are you going to be around Sydney during mid part of July this year? I disagree with your point. No doubt that sex is a special bond that you and your partner have. However, no way is that specialness diluted when there are other people involved. I will give you an example. Say you have a 612 Ferrari with 4 seats. If you and another couple go out for dinner/drive all together in that car, you have experience A. When you and your wife go out in the same car for dinner and drive, you have experience B. However, A and B are not the same, but different. IMO, the sex 1-1 with the person you love is completely different than when you are in a group sex atmosphere. I don't think you can compare at all. I don't think you have to play the clubs and be into this lifestyle. You can be married or long term committed relationships and be very active in this lifestyle (if you ever go to a swinger club, you will see what I mean). These people love each other very much, but are willing to discover a different part of their relationship and their sexuality. As far as kids go, well kids are not brought in these places. Most of the time, these are down outside the house, or when kids are gone for a while. In this lifestyle, its not often that you change up people consistently that kids would be confused. Chris I completely agree with you. When I was younger, and getting involved in something "different" versus what society calls normal, I always heard how people who are into multiple partner sex tend to be "sluts/whores/bad people" whatever. But once you get in, you see these are normal folks. They really are your doctors/lawyers/accountants and such. I agree being open about one's sexuality is very healthy and repression is the enemy.
How about desease? How about unplaned pregnancies? How about all the drama that come with such a life style? I would think some of these things would fall into the equation.
I think you need to go back and reread it. I said if you've made a commitment you should stick to it. That's it. I've said nothing bad about having multiple partners. As a matter of fact I said I'd had some myself when I haven't been in a committed relationship. No where in your original post was this stated. It simply left open discussions and views to multiple partners and the way it's viewed.
hmmm I think a porn star on Howard Stern put it pretty good, "I dont kiss guys when im working, only when im having sex."
I think me and you may have some miscommunication. I am saying you can be in a committed relationship and still have a multiple partner sex life, as long as the other partner partakes, and thus it is not cheating (in my view). I think you didn't see what I was saying regarding above point, and I didn't see what you were saying. Hope that clears it up.
Why get married if you want to explore other sexual relations? Doesn't this defeat the whole concept of marriage? What would you do if children were apart of marriage?
Yes I believe you can ... but to me it (the relationship) would have lost some of its specialness and has weakened greatly. I think it is great that my partner and I have these private moments that we share ... it is not just about getting your rocks off and how many times per night, etc. There are many people that have separated sex and the relationship, but to me this points to sexual dissatisfaction OR maybe they are more secure than I (?) ... In the end I think you need to put sex in its right place. Some people view it as the only thing ... and I think that is pathetic. Motorsport is the only thing . Seriously have children and real responsibilities and then sex's position in your life goes down many positions from the Be and All of your life. Pete ps: I should be in Sydney in July ... but if you are looking for a clubbing partner, er, you have found the wrong man .
i believe that if someone is married or should i say a couple, they should be only having sex with eachother, but on the other hand, if the couple are both into multiple partners at the same time or an open marriage, thats ok too. we who live in america, choose to live here because of our freedom and free choice [ to an extent ] if this is what you choose, nothing wrong in that. some people would probably say that being monogomis is wrong. its america bro, you do what you think is right. is your girl hott ? how old, measurements ? any pics ? if you need me to hit that just say the word., just messin with ya....
I don't think its wrong because in my book anything two or more consenting adults do with each other is fine. Adults are adults and they should be able to make their own decisions and if that includes a swinger party thats fine by me. Mind you I wouldn't be happy if my girlfriend went running out to a swinger party without telling me. I'd be rather peeved she didn't take me along in fact.
