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Monterey car auction extravaganza

Discussion in 'Vintage Ferrari Market' started by Timmmmmmmmmmy, Jul 27, 2015.

  1. Timmmmmmmmmmy

    Timmmmmmmmmmy Formula 3
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    But this is more a situation where there are a lot of auctions needing a lot of cars and the Testarossa are bread and butter. Sure some want to sell and they are easy fish to catch for the big boys but what about those that don't care either way, well the answer is to offer to sell with reserve at x, offer a competitive fee structure and most will be reeled in. Hell if you don't want to sell your car that cost you $100k, they offer a $200k reserve, perhaps $90k in profit, most would give it a go? That's capitalism, money talks and the rest walk. Isn't it?
     
  2. 275gtb6c

    275gtb6c Formula 3
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    My observation is that some non-owners or pre-owners are trying to talk the market down. The objective prices are strong, many cars selling and unbelievable turn over.
    Ferrari 275 's (4/alloy) selling for 3-4 million is real strong money and yes perhaps the Dino's are losening some upward movement but still very expensive. F40's......no comment, very hot and still going (too fast?) up. I think the observations of Tim and DWR46 are spot on.....

    But isn't there another auction currently starting or going on? Anybody knows the 360 GT sold? (I think it was a GTC but could also be the N-GT).

    Ciao from Italy
    Oscar
     
  3. Timmmmmmmmmmy

    Timmmmmmmmmmy Formula 3
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    Gooding starting 6pm pst. Which is right now. Although it always takes a few minutes to get going.

    Will be fascinating to see if they can shift the California Spider?

    Full results at the end, unless anyone wants live updates?
     
  4. bundas

    bundas F1 Veteran
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    Great thread. As noted. Porsche, I really do not understand the mark. I think the price point pushes Porsche into the common man budget. The buyers think the they are special because the own a Porsche. They are MB owners?
     
  5. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    328gts not sold with last bid at 185k. wtf?
    i has 1275 km on the clock. ok fine. so ****ing what??
     
  6. NYC123

    NYC123 Formula Junior

    Jul 15, 2006
    466
    I think for a large portion of the market under $3mln it will be quite tough for many sellers to now sell at auction and be whole if they bought in the past 24 months, especially if they would be subject to full 10 % seller fee. Many cars bought in the past 24 months were purchased at top premium prices for just mediocre examples. The market has changed for the better where currently there are not as many dumb buyers left (sure some but not as many as last year) and its no longer as easy to get an A price for a B or C condition example.. (sure it happens but not a common today as a year or year and a half ago). So while a gullwing or an f40 is generally a stable market ,I think many b or c condition gullwings were bought at says 1.4mln a year ago that would only command maybe 1.1mln today at hammer before 10% seller fee netting a seller a nice 30 percent loss in 15 months.. I think there are quite a few situations like this where sellers are reluctant to sell now or are coming to market with high reserves and no sales.. This is not really a reflection of a weak overall market more a reflection of a period of sloppy buying in years 2013 and 2014...
    If you were savvy and paid A prices for A quality examples with history, documentation etc I think you are in fine shape... maybe won't see appreciation for a a while but if you bought the best I think you are ok ...

    And I do think some of that sloppy vintage buying that happened in that period is now being repeated in the modern supercar/poster car/ modern special edition type stuff... think 600k 512m, or 600k super america, or 500k gt3rs 4.0 kind of stuff. in addition seems pretty clear while P cars are hot and I think really limited special p cars will stay fine, but the majority of p cars bought in the past 2 years have been non special mass produced air cooled stuff that also is currently seeing the air come out… I mean good luck reselling that 450k 3.6 turbo from last year when there are currently 20 for sale at 250k not moving...

    just my humble opinion....
     
  7. glabbe

    glabbe Karting

    Jun 18, 2014
    198
    Leonard, Michigan
    Full Name:
    Dr. Gary Labbe
    1980 512 BB, chassis number 30931, with under 16,000 miles at Gooding auction just sold with a bid of $320,000.
     
  8. Timmmmmmmmmmy

    Timmmmmmmmmmy Formula 3
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    Well here is something interesting from Rick Cole with current status
    Description/Low estimate/ High estimate/ Status/ Current bid

    Lot 604 1984 Ferrari 308 GT/M $950,000.00 $1,000,000.00 Reserve not met $650,000.00
    Lot 605 1967 Toyota 2000GT $950,000.00 $1,100,000.00 Sale pending $925,000.00
    Lot 610 1935 Lincoln Model K 3 window sedan $55,000.00 $75,000.00 Sale pending $41,000.00
    Lot 620 1950 Chrysler Town & Country Newport $65,000.00 $75,000.00 Reserve not met $27,000.00
    Lot 630 1970 Ford Mustang Boss 302 $75,000.00 $85,000.00 Sale pending $62,000.00
    Lot 640 1968 Mercedes Benz 280SL No Reserve No Reserve No Reserve $65,000.00
    Lot 650 1967 Mercedes Benz 300SE Cabriolet $200,000.00 $250,000.00 Reserve met $280,000.00
    Lot 700 1960 Austin-Healey 3000 Mk1 Roadster $70,000.00 $80,000.00 Reserve met $59,250.00
    Lot 710 1991 Aston Martin Virage $50,000.00 $60,000.00 Reserve met $30,000.00
    Lot 720 1953 Hudson Hornet Convertible $150,000.00 $250,000.00 Sale pending $85,000.00
    Lot 730 1963 Jaguar E-Type $125,000.00 $140,000.00 Reserve not met $70,000.00
    Lot 740 1963 AC Cobra 289 $900,000.00 $1,250,000.00 Sale pending $850,000.00
    Lot 750 1961 Renault 4CV $100,000.00 $120,000.00 Reserve not met $67,000.00
    Lot 800 1971 Mercedes-Benz 280 SE 3.5 Cabriolet $350,000.00 $425,000.00 Sale pending $350,000.00
    Lot 810 1963 Jaguar E-Type Convertible $220,000.00 $250,000.00 Reserve not met $135,000.00
    Lot 820 1969 Ferrari 365 GTC $875,000.00 $950,000.00 Reserve met $915,000.00
    Lot 830 2005 Ferrari 575 Superamerica $650,000.00 $750,000.00 Reserve met $565,000.00
    Lot 840 1960 Porsche 356B/1600 Roadster $135,000.00 $175,000.00 Reserve met $150,000.00
    Lot 850 1957 MERCEDES-BENZ 190SL $200,000.00 $220,000.00 Sale pending ??
    Lot 900 1947 Delahaye 135S Narwhal Inquire Inquire Reserve not met $5,400,000.00
    Lot 910 1967 Porsche 911S $285,000.00 $325,000.00 Sale pending $255,000.00
    Lot 920 1959 Austin-Healey 100-6 $75,000.00 $85,000.00 Reserve met $68,000.00
    Lot 930 1956 Austin-Healey 100 M $210,000.00 $230,000.00 Reserve met $220,000.00
    Lot 940 1983 Lamborghini Countach LP500S $475,000.00 $550,000.00 Reserve not met $395,000.00
    Lot 950 1965 Ferrari 330 GT 2 + 2 $300,000.00 $350,000.00 Reserve not met $200,000.00
    Lot 1000 1966 Ferrari 275GTB/4 $7,800,000.00 $8,600,000.00 Sale pending $6,400,000.00
    Lot 1010 1959 Tempero Lister Jaguar $150,000.00 $175,000.00 Reserve not met $65,000.00
    Lot 1020 1989 Ferrari Testarossa $285,000.00 $350,000.00 Reserve met $305,000.00
    Lot 1030 1991 Ferrari F40 $1,200,000.00 $1,500,000.00 Reserve met $1,250,000.00
    Lot 1040 1961 Porsche 356B 1600S Roadtser $200,000.00 $250,000.00 Reserve not met $120,000.00
    Lot 1050 1989 Lamborghini Countach 25th Anniversary Edition $350,000.00 $425,000.00 Reserve not met $215,000.00
    Lot 1055 1962 Mercedes-Benz 300SL Roadser $1,500,000.00 $1,600,000.00 Sale pending $1,325,000.00
    Lot 1100 1967 Ferrari 275 GTB/4 $3,400,000.00 $3,600,000.00 Sale pending $2,925,000.00
    Lot 1110 1965 Ferrari 275GTB $2,200,000.00 $2,500,000.00 Sale pending $2,075,000.00
    Lot 1120 1987 Porsche 959 $1,600,000.00 $1,900,000.00 Reserve met $1,500,000.00
    Lot 1130 1955 Ferrari 250GT Europa Inquire Inquire Sale pending $3,000,000.00
    Lot 1140 1949 Hudson Commodore Convertible Brougham $250,000.00 $300,000.00 Reserve not met $150,000.00
    Lot 1150 1969 Chevrolet Corvette L88 $650,000.00 $750,000.00 Sale pending ??
    Lot 1155 1956 Porsche 356 Speedster $275,000.00 $295,000.00 Reserve not met $200,000.00
    Lot 1200 1957 Maserati 450S Inquire Inquire Reserve not met $750,000.00
     
  9. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    another genius just paid $215 hammer price (so closer to 250k all in) for a 2011 458 with 1200 miles.

    why?
     
  10. Timmmmmmmmmmy

    Timmmmmmmmmmy Formula 3
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    I agree, special is special and anything else its just overpriced
     
  11. NYC123

    NYC123 Formula Junior

    Jul 15, 2006
    466
    as counter intuitive as it is , there is much more logical trading taking place in the $7mln and over market than in the $3mln and under market
     
  12. KenGoldman

    KenGoldman Formula Junior
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    May 25, 2009
    505
    MASS., USA
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    Kenneth Goldman
    Ferrari 250 GTE at Gooding-- S/N 2651--- just sold for $725,000 plus 10%.

    Wonderful car--best I have ever seen---but a bit on the high side !!

    Ken Goldman
     
  13. NYC123

    NYC123 Formula Junior

    Jul 15, 2006
    466
    that car was a beauty... hope new owner really uses and enjoys that one... if whoever bought that is on this board please pm me if you decide to resell it anytime soon...
     
  14. TheMayor

    TheMayor Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Feb 11, 2008
    74,222
    Vegas baby
    Don't need to sell? Then why put it up for auction at all? Why ship the car, get it prepped and read for sale, pay whatever fees, etc?

    Here is what you won't admit.

    Buyers do not want to pay what the sellers are asking for them. That means -- prices are too high.

    THAT is supply and demand as it works in the free market. You're welcome.
     
  15. bundas

    bundas F1 Veteran
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    Dec 31, 2005
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    mitchell barnes
    Degrades my view of car guys. This market has now become the new stock exchange. Sad
     
  16. MS250

    MS250 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    You put it up for sale because you can.

    Heck you spent a fortune on a 458 and traded in just as quick. You are trying to bring in logic to something that is not logical.

    The free market will decide what things will sell for at any given time.

    A no sale is a no sale

    I don't have to admit anything because I don't care , but I will gladly part with my testarossa for 500 - no takers ? Poor me , guess I need to keep it :D

    Not sure why you are so frustrated with the car market and its prices ?

    It is what it is ....
     
  17. Timmmmmmmmmmy

    Timmmmmmmmmmy Formula 3
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    Speaking of sh:t that makes no sense the little Fiat selling for $660k, that cannot be rational? Think for that money you could get a driver GTC, Daytona, maybe a Gullwing, Porsche 911RS, maybe even a Boano, a Cobra. Should I continue?
     
  18. TheMayor

    TheMayor Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Feb 11, 2008
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    Vegas baby
    1) No, I didn't trade it. I gave it back because it wasn't worth what I paid for it. I didn't like it so I got my money back. Perfectly logical. Try that in an auction....

    2) Paying ridiculous prices in an auction you can't drive, can't inspect, and rely only on the "word" of the buyer is what's illogical.

    3) Why do I care? Because real enthusiasts are priced out of the market by speculators who couldn't give a crap what they are buying as long as they think they can make a buck on the next sucker.
     
  19. MS250

    MS250 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Dec 10, 2003
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    Fair enough for your number 1 and number 2

    As for your number 3 - I'm more concerned with the kids with messed up parents that aren't eating during school next week as oppossed to some guy that thinks he deserves an exotic because he read a few car mags and is priced out of the market. I'm priced out of the market myself the last 24 months big deal..... I'll get over it.
    God bless the ones that are opening their wallets !
     
  20. TheMayor

    TheMayor Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Feb 11, 2008
    74,222
    Vegas baby
    I didn't think you cared at all about anything but putting a few bucks in your pocket.

    The facts are that as prices rise, more enthusisats are squeezed out, more enthusiasts sell the cars of their dreams because the pressure is just too great to turn down, and fewer people drive them because they fear what might happen to "the value". In addition, parts prices go up ($15,000 for a jack on Ebay????) and service costs go up.

    ALL from a completely artificially driven market based solely on speculation.

    Welcome to your world. You built it.
     
  21. Prugna

    Prugna Formula 3

    Nov 13, 2014
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    Yep. I let my subscription to "Sports Car Market" expire after 15 years.
     
  22. Timmmmmmmmmmy

    Timmmmmmmmmmy Formula 3
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    #272 Timmmmmmmmmmy, Aug 16, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2015
    Agree with most of your points, the insane thing is that actually using a vehicle will add more value than not. For example, someone offers you a testarossa with delivery miles, say 200. You pay top price for it, fair enough but neither you nor anyone else can drive it........ Or say you maintain it, drive it, enjoy it and sell it to someone that knows they can do the same. Far too many cars have issues with deferred maintenance, especially 1980s/ 1990s supercars that were purchased for pure speculation and frankly if i was offered a car of the period with less than 1000 miles and one with 10000+, I would buy the one that has been driven more (so long as it has records/ receipts etc.).

    I don't wonder whether a lot of people are crystal ball gazing and think that rare late model F-cars are going to appreciate markedly. I can see Porsche 959, Ferrari 288GTO and McLaren F1 going up in price BUT I don't think a fairly common 575 or variant will suddenly stop being fairly common anytime soon nor do I think anyone can simply ignore long term trends. If I wanted to drive something modern and fast I would buy a 458 for retail and drive it. The thing we love about these old cars is that offer a tactile experience that nothing new can offer. Hell I adore the Pebble winning Isotta which apart from having four wheels has very little in common with these modern things and when the Isotta sold at Retromobile of last year, it fetched $1 million USD which is Enzo money....... Makes you think, doesn't it?
     
  23. Timmmmmmmmmmy

    Timmmmmmmmmmy Formula 3
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    Gooding results, lost internet feed towards the end......

    Lot 101 1976 Ferrari 308 GTB Vetroresina $175,000.00 $225,000.00 $225,000.00 $247,500.00
    Lot 102 1971 Mercedes-Benz 280 SE 3.5 Coupe $150,000.00 $175,000.00 $130,000.00 $143,000.00
    Lot 103 1958 Porsche 356 A Speedster $300,000.00 $350,000.00 $345,000.00 $379,500.00
    Lot 104 1980 Ferrari 512 Berlinetta Boxer $350,000.00 $425,000.00 $320,000.00 $352,000.00
    Lot 105 1955 Hudson Italia $100,000.00 $125,000.00 $140,000.00 $154,000.00
    Lot 106 1968 Ferrari 365 GTC $800,000.00 $900,000.00 $725,000.00 $797,500.00
    Lot 107 1989 Lamborghini Countach 25th Anniversary Edition $500,000.00 $600,000.00 $380,000.00 $416,000.00
    Lot 108 1964 Shelby 289 Cobra $900,000.00 $1,200,000.00 $820,000.00 $902,000.00
    Lot 109 1939 Ford V-8 Model 91A Deluxe Station Wagon $140,000.00 $180,000.00 $100,000.00 $110,000.00
    Lot 110 1959 Mercedes-Benz 300 SL Roadster $1,100,000.00 $1,300,000.00 $1,000,000.00 $1,100,000.00
    Lot 111 1966 Alfa Romeo Giulia Sprint Speciale $130,000.00 $175,000.00 $100,000.00 $110,000.00
    Lot 112 1972 Maserati Ghibli 4.9 SS Coupe $375,000.00 $450,000.00 $340,000.00 $374,000.00
    Lot 113 1961 Aston Martin DB4 Series II $800,000.00 $1,000,000.00 $700,000.00 $770,000.00
    Lot 114 1912 Packard Model 30 Seven-Passenger Touring $325,000.00 $375,000.00 Not sold @ $260k
    Lot 115 1976 Porsche 930 $220,000.00 $260,000.00 $230,000.00 $253,000.00
    Lot 116 1961 Ferrari 250 GTE Series I $550,000.00 $650,000.00 $735,000.00 $808,500.00
    Lot 117 1967 Porsche 906E $1,600,000.00 $2,000,000.00 $1,500,000.00 $1,650,000.00
    Lot 118 1988 Aston Martin V8 Volante $175,000.00 $225,000.00 $150,000.00 $165,000.00
    Lot 119 1953 Bentley R-Type Continental Fastback $1,400,000.00 $1,800,000.00 Not sold @ $1.15 million
    Lot 120 1954 Jaguar XK120 SE Roadster $150,000.00 $180,000.00 $280,000.00 $308,000.00
    Lot 121 1956 Fiat Eden Roc Unknown Unknown $600,000.00 $660,000.00
    Lot 122 1927 Bugatti Type 38 Roadster $200,000.00 $250,000.00 $240,000.00 $264,000.00
    Lot 123 1934 Packard Twelve 1108 Sport Sedan $2,000,000.00 $3,000,000.00 $3,300,000.00 $3,630,000.00
    Lot 124 1970 Mercedes-Benz 600 SWB $140,000.00 $170,000.00 $130,000.00 $143,000.00
    Lot 125 1967 Toyota 2000 GT $800,000.00 $1,000,000.00 $730,000.00 $803,000.00
    Lot 126 1925 Lincoln Model L Beetleback Roadster $250,000.00 $300,000.00 Not sold @ $170k
    Lot 127 1965 Aston Martin DB5 Convertible $1,400,000.00 $1,800,000.00 $1,400,000.00 $1,540,000.00
    Lot 128 1961 Fiat-OSCA 1500S Spider $100,000.00 $120,000.00 $70,000.00 $77,000.00
    Lot 129 1961 Ferrari 250 GT SWB California Spider $16,000,000.00 $18,000,000.00 $15,300,000.00 $16,830,000.00
    Lot 130 1970 De Tomaso Mangusta $350,000.00 $450,000.00 $295,000.00 $324,500.00
    Lot 131 1955 Mercedes-Benz 300 SL Gullwing $1,450,000.00 $1,700,000.00 ?? ??
    Lot 132 1963 Watson Indianapolis Roadster $400,000.00 $500,000.00 Not sold @ $320k
    Lot 133 1934 Rolls-Royce Phantom II Continental Two-Seater Drophead Coupe $1,500,000.00 $2,000,000.00 Not sold @ $1.1 million
    Lot 134 1959 Fiat-Abarth 750 GT $130,000.00 $160,000.00 $115,000.00 $126,500.00
    Lot 135 1957 Ferrari 410 Superamerica Series II Coupe $5,000,000.00 $6,000,000.00 $4,625,000.00 $5,087,500.00
    Lot 136 1911 Fiat Tipo 6 Four-Passenger Demi-Tonneau $600,000.00 $800,000.00 $800,000.00 $880,000.00
    Lot 137 1975 Porsche 911 Carrera 3.0 RSR $700,000.00 $900,000.00 $1,175,000.00 $1,292,500.00
    Lot 138 1960 Ferrari 250 GT Coupe $750,000.00 $850,000.00 $650,000.00 $715,000.00
    Lot 139 1973 Porsche 911 Carrera 2.7 RS Lightweight $900,000.00 $1,100,000.00 $850,000.00 $935,000.00
    Lot 140 1998 Ferrari 333 SP $2,000,000.00 $2,400,000.00 $1,900,000.00 $2,090,000.00
    Lot 141 2005 Mercedes-Benz CLK DTM AMG Coupe $400,000.00 $600,000.00 $410,000.00 $451,000.00
    Lot 142 2004 Maserati MC12 GT1 $2,000,000.00 $2,500,000.00 Not sold $1.7 million
    Lot 143 1960 Porsche RS60 $5,500,000.00 $7,000,000.00 Not sold @ $4.85 million, post block sale
    Lot 144 2000 Porsche 996 GT3 R $400,000.00 $600,000.00 Not sold @ $320k
    Lot 145 1973 Porsche 911 Carrera 2.8 RSR $900,000.00 $1,100,000.00 $850,000.00 $935,000.00
    Lot 146 1988 Porsche 930 S Slantnose $170,000.00 $200,000.00 $140,000.00 $154,000.00
    Lot 147 1965 Rolls-Royce Silver Cloud III Flying Spur $400,000.00 $500,000.00 Not sold @ $360k
    Lot 148 1974 Ferrari Dino 246 GTS $350,000.00 $425,000.00 $365,000.00 $401,500.00
    Lot 149 1961 Maserati 3500 GT Spider $850,000.00 $1,000,000.00 Not sold @ $700k
    Lot 150 2003 Ferrari 575M $140,000.00 $160,000.00 $160,000.00 $176,000.00
    Lot 151 1959 Mercedes-Benz 300 D Cabriolet $475,000.00 $550,000.00 $240,000.00 $264,000.00
    Lot 152 1926 Rolls-Royce Silver Ghost Pall Mall $300,000.00 $375,000.00 Not sold @ $240k
    Lot 153 1961 Ferrari 250 GT Series II Cabriolet $1,800,000.00 $2,200,000.00 $1,650,000.00 $1,815,000.00
    Lot 154 1967 Porsche 911 $200,000.00 $250,000.00 ?? ??
    Lot 155 1957 Lancia Aurelia B24S Cabriolet $400,000.00 $500,000.00 ?? ??
    Lot 156 1955 Jaguar XK140 MC Roadster $130,000.00 $160,000.00 ?? ??
    Lot 157 1973 Ferrari 365 GTB/4 Daytona $750,000.00 $900,000.00 ?? ??
    Lot 158 1958 Porsche 356 A Speedster $325,000.00 $375,000.00 $530,000.00 $583,000.00
    Lot 159 1994 Porsche 964 Turbo 3.6 $300,000.00 $350,000.00 $250,000.00 $275,000.00
    Lot 160 1967 Jaguar E-Type Series 1 4.2-Litre Roadster $220,000.00 $260,000.00 $160,000.00 $176,000.00

    Day two total $60 million. Weekend total $128 million.
     
  24. Timmmmmmmmmmy

    Timmmmmmmmmmy Formula 3
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    Apr 5, 2010
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    Timothy Russell
    Once confirmed sale's prices have come in I will try to provide the following.

    1 - Total sales for the 6 auctions (by $ and qty)
    Already have
    Bonhams $43 million
    RM $170 million
    Gooding $128 million
    Rick cole $23 million (still counting)
    Mecum $38 million
    Russo & Steele ??
    So already at $402 million which will increase ...... (2014 - total sales $427 million)
    2 - Sales prices for all of the 100+ Ferraris plus some others that are special enough to warrant attention (200+/- in total) plus % of over/ under high bid/sale vs low estimate
    3 - Average sales prices per auction and overall
    4 - Compare key statistics to last couple of year's.......

    Thanks for tuning in folks......

    ps. In case you think all of the talk about $ is vulgar, which I agree that it could well be, I like to know how much these cars sell and argue values with people that are interested and I don't think there is anything wrong with that
     
  25. benmou

    benmou Formula Junior
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    Jan 21, 2015
    431
    Thank you very much for all of you, you really help the community and I think that we all dont say THANK YOU enough.
    THEN THANK YOU AGAIN AND AGAIN
     

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