Montana registration crack-down

you are lucky. The world is not consistent. I drove an AZ plated Ferrari in Cali for only a few months and was pulled twice merely to check why I hadn't registered it in Cali yet. (no traffic infringement, just a "what are you doing here and why isn't this car registered in the great state of cali")

 

I can't answer specifically wrt MT plates because I don't practice that lie.

However, I have had residences in multiple states at the same time, including AZ and had multiple vehicles with plates from the various states. I drove those vehicles in several of the states. My insurance company full understood the specifics on living locations etc. Put simply I rated and paid insurance (and annual lic/use/reg state fees) in the place where the car spent the majority of its time.

My takeaway is that insurance companies don't really care about where the car is registered. Rather, they care where it is garaged/domiciled and driven for rate setting purposes. So each of my cars had the correct address for where it spent the majority of its time.

Technically, if there was a big accident with large liability, it would not shock me if an insurance company looked into "why" the car was being driven in an area far from its disclosed/rate-set location. Of course this happens with travel, so certainly its a not a method to automatically refuse claims. However, if they wanted to, I'm pretty sure they could deny a claim for misrepresentation by the policy holder if you told them a car was garaged in MT and yet it was really garaged in the middle of a much-higher rate location like PHX downtown and driven there. Again, its not going to be a 100% thing, because its down to the individual persons involved at the insurer and the facts of your situation. But if there is fraud or willful misrepresentation in an an insurance policy/contract, the insurance company certainly has recourse to deny claims.

 

In Florida I think the rule is that you have 6 months after moving here to transfer title and registration. If you’re already a resident you have to register, title and pay the sales tax immediately. In a small town like where I live a Montana plate would really stick out. I honestly don’t know if anybody in Florida has ever been clipped for an out of state registration, even if done with a corporate entity.

 

Thanks for the answers and the perspective.
The biggest cost savings would have been if I had purchased the car initially thru Montana LLC and avoided the sales tax. Point taken that now that after 8yrs of registration it is slowly going down (but still a long ways away from being $25) and may not be worth the headache.
I think many of us get caught up on the principle: Feeling nickled and dimed a lot these past few years so you try to save where you can.
I guess the take away is drive the 458 more because paying AZ $1k to keep it in my garage makes it even worse.
Thanks everyone

 

Is there a service in Montana that specializes in setting up these entities for sales tax purposes? Any idea of what they charge? Typically with any business entity there are continuing state requirements for submitting various reports, even tax returns.

 

Heard this from a friend....

https://www.bennettlawofficepc.com/

It's surprisingly easy and they take care of everything, including storing the car if you need to bring it in from another country.....or so I've heard ;-)

 

Unsure if the California Vehicle Code is described earlier in this thread. Except for limited, defined exceptions, Montana LLC ownership of a car does not appear to change the requirement to register and pay California registration fees when the car is used primarily in California.

California Vehicle Code 4000.4
(a) Except as provided in Sections 6700, 6702, and 6703, any vehicle which is registered to a nonresident owner, and which is based in California or primarily used on California highways, shall be registered in California.

(b) For purposes of this section, a vehicle is deemed to be primarily or regularly used on the highways of this state if the vehicle is located or operated in this state for a greater amount of time than it is located or operated in any other individual state during the registration period in question.

(Amended by Stats. 1988, Ch. 1008, Sec. 2.)

 

Do any New York residents have experience using Montana LLCs for the purchase of a new vehicle? Is New York as challenging as it seems like California may be?


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Good luck finding a new York dealer or at least a new car dealer that will let you utilize a Montana registration.

 

Bennett has become a bit of pain in the ass. Slow. Nonresponsive etc... There are many places up there that do it now... Bennett is great just don't be in a hurt or expect any sort of help.

 

A NY based dealer would not do this for a NY resident. States near NY certainly do this for NY residents.


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Yes but then you have to register it in New York. Like if you buy a car in New Jersey you will get a New Jersey temp tag but then you will have to register it in New York. NYS law is you have 10 days to notify the DMV of an address change.


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Hmm I have heard about NYers doing this from relatively nearby dealers like a NJ dealer for example using a Montana LLC. It is possible I heard wrong and/or have dated information.


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Again, the key is your state residency. I'm currently driving a car with Oregon plates, but I'm a Florida resident. Texas can't require me to register the car in Texas. Now, if I was a Texas resident, it would be a difference story.

 

Actually, in California (and I suspect some other state's have a similar "car location/use" based law), they don't care about "you" at all. You can live in Cali or not, be a "resident" or not, doesn't matter.

What matters under Cali law is where the car is based/used:

Any vehicle based in California or primarily used on California highways must be registered in California, even if the vehicle is registered to a nonresident owner. A vehicle is considered to be primarily or regularly used on California highways if it is located or operated in this state for a greater amount of time than it is located or operated in any other individual state during the registration period (CVC §4000.4).

Its easiest if people think of the annual registration/taxes/fees as a "use tax" and then the law around this matter become clearer...state's want their $ if you "use" the asset in their state. (yes, its true not all states have "use" taxes, some do at point-of-sale, some as annual. It varies, but more-or-less, vehicle taxes are implemented as essentially use taxes)

Btw - this is why the MT thing "legally" doesn't fly in Cali, period. Cali doesn't care if your LLC is legit or not in the eyes of MT. Go ahead, do that. But if you then domicile the car in Cali or even drive it on cali roads for more time than it spends in any other state, Cali law - which is the only law that matters other than Fed law in Cali - says you owe annual vehicle taxes/registration on that car to Cali. Even Bennett will tell you that (they told me that when I talked to them years ago about my multi-state, multi-home, multi-car life I had at the time). Of course Law Enforcement has other/better things to do, so YMMV when it comes to getting this cali law enforced when driving in Cali. I got checked twice in a few months, but other's don't get checked. Oh well, the world isn't fair nor consistent.

EDIT: I bet I've typed this near-exact post 3-4x in this thread now

 

I agree this is California's take. Texas takes a different view. If you are a Texas resident and you drive a car over Texas public roads, you must register the car.

BTW, I argued about this in an issue of the SCM maybe 10 years ago. They tried to get Bennet to respond, and he wouldn't. You have to carefully read what he says. For example, he will say a registering a car through a Montana LLC is legal -- IN MONTANA! Nowhere does he say if it is legal in your state. He not that dumb.

 

Unless you have ESQ behind your name, I would just pay the use tax, drice the damn car and enjoy life.

It is very likely if someone gets caught with this, it will open up more 'legal' loopholes that person is utilizing...

 

Are they going after all the Delaware corporations too?

 

I was in Boca Raton, FL today and saw a black Bugatti Chiron with Montana plates.

 

Only one?

 

Again, this issue is at the state level. When they come for you, you can throw up whatever argument you want, but it will fall on deaf ears.

 

Delaware corporations pay income taxes and use taxes in each state based on each states' laws (usually based on what they do in the state...physical presence tests, revenue tests, etc). And because of that, nobody forms their legal entity in Delaware for tax reasons.

Said simply, the states tax revenue laws don't GAF where the corporations' legal entity/ownership resides.

In fact, its literally the opposite of the MT vehicle thing.

So...the correct question would be "why aren't Individual's cars treated like Delaware corporations"...

(that would mean, "go ahead, own it in an LLC in MT". The Other states would still want to know what assets the LLC has in their state and can assess and collect use and other taxes based upon that physical use or location of the vehicle. This is very well trodden and settled law - again we have had this discussion earlier in the thread at least once.)

 

I saw the same one in Mizner Park

 

The same is true in Massachusetts. You can live on a cruise ship condo or on the moon, and your LLC can be in Katmandu, but if the car is garaged in MA, you owe excise tax.

 

That’s the one I use .
Good stuff .