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Montana registration crack-down

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by Terence Courtnage, Oct 25, 2018.

  1. ag512bbi

    ag512bbi F1 Veteran
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    Lightening things up? More like stirring the pot. Calling out the plates. Ouch.
     
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  2. Clyde Romero

    Clyde Romero Formula Junior

    Sep 6, 2019
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    Nice showing
    They will fund out the hard way
    California is hurting for tax revenue
     
  3. detailbrian

    detailbrian Rookie
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    I see all States eventually going this route to gain additional revenue.
     
  4. RonH

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    #504 RonH, May 31, 2020
    Last edited: May 31, 2020
    Sorry. The purpose WAS to lighten things up after the prior exchange (if you noticed there was a pretty harsh back and forth), the cars and coffee was a perfect example of people getting out and living (which was the immediately preceding comment) and it did totally tie into the Montana plate discussion.

    Who knows the origin of the Montana plated car? There could be a million legitimate reasons. One F40 had dealer plates, the other had a dealer license plate holder. Could have been the local Ferrari dealer trying to show off two F40s that he just acquired for sale. The one F40 could have been a friend of the dealer and he just drove into town. Or it also could have been illegitimate.

    It is not my place to figure out the answers nor is it my obligation to keep quiet and hide it either.
     
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  5. Clyde Romero

    Clyde Romero Formula Junior

    Sep 6, 2019
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    Granted and we really don’t know at this point
    But I feel the majority of those using the plates have to know that they will be looked into now with more scrutiny than before and it will result in fines and the like
    I can see the states and municipalities going for an amnesty program since it’s their best interest
    We will see where this all shakes out
    But a storm is coming on this front
     
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  6. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Four Time F1 World Champ
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    California already has a snitch on your neighbor program. Next step might be to offer a bounty.


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
     
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  7. Clyde Romero

    Clyde Romero Formula Junior

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    its just going to get worse for those who used this scam over time
    and I would not put it past them to do just that by offering a bounty just like the US Government does with the whistle blower program
    if they would do what some countries do by crushing the cars when the individuals are caught breaking the law
    a lot of this would stop
    all it would talk is one car crushed
     
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  8. jjtjr

    jjtjr Formula Junior

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    I laugh about this, and other laws that go completely unenforced. Years ago, it was commonplace to see many vt plates on cars sitting in driveways in mass. That was because vt reg was cheaper, and mass had a excise tax and higher insurance, but now the tables have turned and it is now more expensive in vt but yet you still see cars in mass with vt plates. Nowhere near as many as before but still a few here and there. I think if you were to talk to local and state law enforcement, they will tell you that they have more important issues to address and more "low hanging fruit" to gather. Getting the US economy open should be way more important than license plates...just my .02
     
  9. Gh21631

    Gh21631 F1 Rookie
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    Its real simple, if these states just took a more reasonable approach with taxes then there would be very few trying to skirt the system and the net gains would make up for the losses. Instead they push people out of their state and/or make them come up with creative ways to save money. Pigs get fat hogs get slaughtered still applies.
     
  10. Nospinzone

    Nospinzone F1 Rookie

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    It is not "real simple", it's more like real simplistic. You simply can't compare a populous industrial state with a sparsely populated mostly agrarian state.

    However, that's not to say that the higher tax states can't manage better on fewer tax dollars. My state of Massachusetts could certainly do better, but people who cheat on their car registration directly cause taxes to rise for their neighbors. Massachusetts has an excise tax which is assessed every year by the city/town in which you live. Those excise tax fees go directly to the city/town's coffers to pay for their operations.

    I pay the excise tax on my 2 Ferraris, plus my Lexus, plus my wife's Porsche. That money goes to help operate the government of my town of 11,000 people. So if some of my neighbors are illegally registering their cars in Montana, they are enjoying the benefits of living in my town without contributing their fair share.

    And that's the issue I have with these cheaters. They want the benefits, but they want other people to pay for them. I have several friends in town with multiple cars and each with at least one Ferrari, they all sport Massachusetts plates. I'm sure I could register my Ferraris in Montana, but I would be ashamed to face them. ;)
     
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  11. Gh21631

    Gh21631 F1 Rookie
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    Interestingly it is the populous states that are the most egregious. Somehow how the less populated states make it work just fine. If you look a tiny bit deeper it is the democratic states.

    Just because you have a couple nice cars does that mean that you should subsidize your neighbors who elect not to have nicer cars? Aren't you already paying more sales tax, perhaps more income tax? You and others who share the same mindset are more than welcome to pay more, I believe there is a box for you to check.


    You couldn't be more off on your position. My next door neighbors drive old cars, mine are much much more expensive. They have access to everything I do - perhaps more. Does this make sense? I pay more in sales tax than they do in mortgage payments. Does it make sense to pay a recurring tax on these same vehicles? Does it makes sense to not get sales tax credit on trade ins? When is enough enough?


    Any of you who disagree are more than welcome to pay more, just donate to your state. I personally pay way more than my share so if there is an opportunity to save some money I am taking advantage. Call it cheating if you want - whatever makes you feel better about yourself. There was a thread in P&R about being sanctimonious, many people here seem fit the description perfectly.
     
  12. Nospinzone

    Nospinzone F1 Rookie

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    I thought all 50 states were democracies, no?



    I checked that box.



    I'm sitting, what position should I be in?


    Well, modestly, I must say I am holier than thou. :)
     
  13. LARRYH

    LARRYH F1 Veteran
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    Jun 3, 2011
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    the states that have annual property tax bills just need to cap them or something a great example is in late nov 2019 I bought a 911 TurboS .. cost around 200k the sales taxes paid in November was around $8500... so ok then in May I get a bill for the property tax bill for the same car it is around 6000 and I will get that bill every year sure it will go down so it might be 5700 next year but point is why should they bill me not only the sales tax but a massive property tax every year of course it is only for the first 25 years then it goes away my property tax bill for cars is excessive....
     
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  14. Gh21631

    Gh21631 F1 Rookie
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    Meaning dems, libs whatever you want to call them run your state.

    I doubt you did but if so then you should have no issue. Just gather your like minded friends and have at it.

    Pay in whatever extra amounts you like and subsidize your neighbors. I am fine with it, just dont impose your ideology on everyone else.

    Obviously.
     
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  15. Gh21631

    Gh21631 F1 Rookie
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    And on top of that in VA you get no sales tax credit for trade in's so you are paying tax on the same money over and over + the recurring property tax. You might make the argument in VA that income tax is lower but it is only about 1% less than MD and real estate property taxes are on the higher side. In the libs defense it has been this way well before they took over.
     
  16. LARRYH

    LARRYH F1 Veteran
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    yes that's right I traded in a 2016 turbo S so you are right ...I do not mind the sales tax but surely the personal prop tax is completely out of line...
     
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  17. Gh21631

    Gh21631 F1 Rookie
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    If they capped them I bet you wouldn't see any Montana or other tags. Many people I know have homes in other states and tend to register in those states whenever possible because of this which is why I believe if the states were more reasonable in their approach they would net out the same. If people feel like they are being cheated they will find ways to skirt the system.
     
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  18. LARRYH

    LARRYH F1 Veteran
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    back in the day they had personal property taxes on boats also but the marina group lobbied and they did away with it and now in the winter the boats are still in state unless they are actully traveling .. back in the 90s in VA in the winter every marina was empty because they only counted boats that were in the slip on January 1 if I recall right ... so now no property tax bill on boats and there are a lot more boats staying in VA...
     
  19. Gh21631

    Gh21631 F1 Rookie
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    Fortunately I split time with my DE house where my boat is registered. The house pays for itself with the savings.
     
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  20. RonH

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    There are a lot of people citing “self convincing” reasons for not complying with tax laws, such as taxes are too high, taxes are unfair, taxes are not proportional, your mother doesn't like taxes, and ad nauseaum. Go for it if you want to convince yourself. But bottom line, evasion of taxes is a crime and you are not convincing anyone other than yourself and your chorus section of fellow wannabe tax evaders. If you are ok with that and are prepared to become a criminal and bear the consequences, go for it.

    But if you are not a criminal then don't bother with all the self justification. Pay your taxes. If you don't like your taxes (and many of us don't—I after all do live in the great tax state of California) then get a movement going and elect those that will change it. If you cant do that then move someplace that has tax laws that you like. But don't sit there and say that you are “entitled” to violate the law for a “reason”. You are not.
     
  21. Gh21631

    Gh21631 F1 Rookie
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    Not one post from anyone stating they were entitled to violate the law. Not sure how you got there but OK.

    One challenge is that the cockroaches that screwed their home states are now moving out because they cant afford to live there anymore and heading to other states that are more sensible. Problem is that they are voting for the same crap they ran away from.
     
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  22. RonH

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    I have seen a number of people posting here in support of the Montana tax scam. Check your local laws as to whether it is criminal behavior. It certainly is in California. Also, I assumed in the following post that you were advocating not paying your local taxes.

    I am glad you are not actually advocating cheating on your taxes.

    My concern is that people delude themselves into criminal behavior by justifying tax cheating. By all means, we should all protest taxes and we should all try to get rid of the politicians that promise us everything in the world using our own money to fulfill the promises. But lets not use those concerns to cross the line.
     
  23. ScreaminRevs

    ScreaminRevs Formula Junior

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    The left will steal as much as they can, but only from those they designate. Do you think the scumbags who have been looting countless stores and millions of dollars of merchandise the last few days are targeted 1/1000th as much as the "scofflaws" who register their exotic in a tax haven state? Freakin' laughable!
     
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  24. Nospinzone

    Nospinzone F1 Rookie

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    So using this reasoning all houses in your town should be assessed for the same amount. Why should the wealthy person in the mansion have to pay more property taxes than a less affluent person in a bungalow? A one bedroom bungalow and a mansion both get the same town services.
     
  25. Gh21631

    Gh21631 F1 Rookie
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    Please read more slowly if it helps you. My next door neighbor has the same type of house. Nowhere but in your own head was there a comparison to someone of lesser means.

    Moreover the affluent person pays more taxes everyday as they purchase and produce more.
     
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