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Montana registration crack-down

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by Terence Courtnage, Oct 25, 2018.

  1. BT

    BT F1 World Champ

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    Sounds good to me. Boone is a nice place, but has gotten touristy. I prefer the real backwoods of extreme western NC.

    :D
    BT
     
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  2. arizonaitalian

    arizonaitalian F1 World Champ
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    Um, read the thread? :) Its been covered many times.


    Btw, wrt your link, I didn't click it but I presume its promoter of the MT scheme. Fwiw, I've called a couple of the law firms that advertise this MT reg scheme and even they advised me that my situation (lived in CA and wanted to garage the car in CA would not work).
     
  3. ylshih

    ylshih Global Moderator
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    Several posts delving into income distribution, taxation and high-tax states deleted. That is a P&R topic and does not belong here.
     
  4. Hoodude

    Hoodude Formula 3
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    Yin,tried to send you a pm,cheersRE
     
  5. obbob

    obbob Formula Junior

    Aug 14, 2017
    699
    California is incredibly desperate and greedy. Once I was driving there and got pulled over specifically for having an out of state license plate. I’m not a California resident, and the car was just there for 4 days. I still got a huge tirade of how I’m a fraud for not registering the car in California, and the CHP officer reported the car to the California tax board.

    His logic: “why would you be driving a non rental car in a place you don’t live”?

    I guess this car has to be registered to the Marriott hotel as it’s home address?
     
  6. randkin

    randkin Formula 3

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    Randy
    Living in California, I am surprised that the CHP made such a big deal since you had a out of state drivers license. I frequently see both Nevada and Oregon plates in addition to the questionable Montana plates which they are really looking for.
     
  7. randkin

    randkin Formula 3

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    Can't reply, my origonal post was deleted and I have been admonished that discussion belongs on a P&R forum which I am not a member.:D
     
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  8. CornersWell

    CornersWell F1 Rookie

    Nov 24, 2004
    4,565
    Yup. Me, too. This is total baloney. Thanks, mods.

    CW
     
  9. obbob

    obbob Formula Junior

    Aug 14, 2017
    699
    That particular officer seemed to be on a mission just to pull over out of state license plates.

    I over heard him talking on the radio saying to another officer "If he has a Washington State license plate then it's fraud".
     
  10. randkin

    randkin Formula 3

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    Sounds like you were already tried and convicted on the spot saving all of us California tax payers all those court costs. :D
     
  11. BMW.SauberF1Team

    BMW.SauberF1Team F1 World Champ

    Dec 4, 2004
    12,608
    Yikes! Imagine if you had a Montana plate. You'd go straight to prison. No citation, no jail with bail posting, no court hearing. Straight to prison in solitary confinement lol.

    Has anyone heard of anything more than fines for the Georgia residents with Montana llc plate cars?
     
  12. randkin

    randkin Formula 3

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    I would hold that most all taxation laws are ‘flawed” since in most every case they favor one citizen group over another. Who ever said that laws have to be based on logic and fairness, they are just laws that have been passed by a majority of legislators. So while I can understand your frustration I do not think the issue is resolvable. IMO
     
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  13. Nospinzone

    Nospinzone F1 Rookie

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    Granted some tax laws may be flawed, I think the excise tax law in Massachusetts is actually very fair and not flawed. It simply states if you live in the state and garage your car in the state, then you have to pay the excise tax to the city/town in which you reside.

    If a bill came up in the Mass. legislature that read you can register your car in any state of your choosing, it would lose because only a very few wealthy people, and a few not so wealthy people, would vote for it.
     
  14. LitzDoc

    LitzDoc Rookie

    Feb 10, 2018
    30
    I live in NH. We have a far better roads than MA(Taxassachusetts ) with far fewer tolls and cheaper gas. No sales tax and no state income tax; What’s not to like?
    Believe it or not, it cost me $72.00 to register my 2013 911 Carrera S with 7000 miles.
    I figure by living here in New Hampshire and saving money on taxes I can retire 10 years earlier than if I lived in Massachusetts or California.


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
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  15. JJ

    JJ Formula 3
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    Curious...

    I live in NE PA and quite a few people here frequently travel to NY/NJ/CT, such that their car is never in PA (or any state) for 30 continuous days, ever. If one of these people had a Montana LLC that does actually do business (i.e. revenues and/or profits), would this be clean on all sides?
     
  16. pilotoCS

    pilotoCS Formula 3
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    I've talked to cops about this. They have a pretty simple rule of thumb: Your driving license state must match your registration state. If not, you got some 'splainin to do in court . . . . at your expense.
     
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  17. arizonaitalian

    arizonaitalian F1 World Champ
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    Having a real business that the car is an asset of makes this question far simpler. But, even then, the state under which a business is registered doesn't absolve the company of paying taxes under the laws of the states in which it operates, has assets or income (for example, the majority of publicly traded companies are registered in Delaware, but of course pay taxes in all states where they have operations, assets and/or income)
     
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  18. EastMemphis

    EastMemphis Formula Junior
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    #343 EastMemphis, Jun 18, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2019
    I was in a minor accident with my S550 that has an "out of state" license plate. The semi that hit me also had an out of state plate. Both the semi driver and myself have TN licenses. The result? The semi guy got a ticket for hitting me. Nothing, not even the slightest question, was asked about the registration details of either vehicle.

    So while some states may be cracking down on the out of state plate thing, in TN, the police don't seem to care. There is no personal property tax on personal vehicles in TN.

    I think one of the key things with even considering using Montana or another state to register your vehicle are the consequences and legality of doing so. The best way to find out is to contact a competent lawyer who will give you honest answers, even if it costs them business. I suggest contacting Bennett Law Office for a consultation.
     
  19. pilotoCS

    pilotoCS Formula 3
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    I can assure you, it's quite different in Virginia!
     
  20. JJ

    JJ Formula 3
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    #345 JJ, Jun 18, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2019
    Right, that's really what I'm asking. It's clearly legal for an operating business in Montana to own, register a car in Montana, and drive it outside the state. There doesn't seem to be any ambiguity there. When it comes to the destination state, though, the situation I'm describing here is a bit of a "perpetual traveler" scenario but for the car instead of a person.

    I'd have to look up the rules in PA as well as each state that the car regularly visits, but it would appear that because the car moves around so much it technically never actually establishes residency/nexus anywhere.

    If the standard is 30 consecutive nights within the state, all it takes is one day (night?) a month in another state to avoid triggering this. It's actually really hard to avoid for those of us who live here in NEPA and fly out of EWR or do business in NY/MA/CT/MD/VA/DC, all of which are less than 5 hours drive (so are PHL/PIT but they're moot for these purposes). As a matter of fact, I am pretty confident I haven't been in PA for 30 consecutive days in the last 10 years at least. Expense reports with tolls, parking, hotel/flight, and receipts for all would back that up.

    I never really thought about it before and haven't looked up the rules. Heck, I may find out that my cars would technically be residents of NYC or NJ, which would probably not work out so well! Interesting...

    Edit: I'm having a hard time finding the rule for PA. Anybody know where to look?
     
  21. arizonaitalian

    arizonaitalian F1 World Champ
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    Its not hard to look up. I did it for the 4 states I've had concurrent residences in over the past 15 years or so. The really hard to deal with situation is when the States have differing and competing definitions/laws. I got to the point where I printed out the State laws on a piece of paper and kept it in my glove box to help educate any LEO's that happened to wonder why I had an OOS plate on a car. I never got more than a "huh" and shrug in response. In CA I got pulled over a couple of times in the limited time I had my CS there and got off with a "warning" (really not a threat, rather the LEO just explaining the law to me and reminding me to register the car in CA if/when I hit their time threshold. I told him "yes sir, I will" but don't expect to do so because the car won't be here long enough to meet that requirement.).
     
  22. JJ

    JJ Formula 3
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    That notwithstanding, I still can't find it. Mind lending a helping hand?

    What I did find is that a car purchased more than 6 months prior to transfer does not pay sales tax to PA. I just can't find the mandatory registration trigger.
     
  23. JJ

    JJ Formula 3
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    I did find this at AAA: "A non-resident owner of an out-of-state vehicle can operate a vehicle in Pennsylvania without registering the vehicle in Pennsylvania provided that the vehicle is registered in another state. This out-of-state vehicle cannot be used for transportation services of persons of hire, or regularly operated in carrying on any business in Pennsylvania."
     
  24. arizonaitalian

    arizonaitalian F1 World Champ
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    Key word is "non-resident owner". For most 2+ home owners, this is the general rule that allows them to have one official residence (for many such purposes) and avoid having to register their car in another state that they may spend part of the year in. In this case, PA is telling people that fail their "residency" test/standard that they don't have to register their car in PA while "visiting" there. Not all states have this rule, written in this way. The other "gotcha" is when states have small periods of time which are their "standard" for automatically calling you a resident (for this purpose). CA comes to mind. Said differently, one can clearly meet the residence requirement of - say - AZ and spend 3-5 months per year in CA (say the entire summer) and CA can cite their regulations that you need to register the car there even though you are a resident of AZ. Its one of many challenges we face living in a republic of states (other ones are far more impactful than car registration costs).
     
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  25. JJ

    JJ Formula 3
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    That's fine for people, but if a Montana LLC owns the car it (the LLC) is a nonresident owner that likely will never meet the PA residency requirement and should be good to go indefinitely, no? Even still, after six months the LLC can transfer the car to the individual and no sales tax will be due. This seems like a layup, so I must be missing something.
     

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