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Montana registration crack-down

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by Terence Courtnage, Oct 25, 2018.

  1. Xtreme5053

    Xtreme5053 Formula Junior
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    Aug 20, 2006
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    Do I need to charge tax at my garage sale?

    “Pardon me sir, that old lamp is actually $5.00 + tax. It’s not the lamp’s fault, this is a garage SALE.”


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  2. BMW.SauberF1Team

    BMW.SauberF1Team F1 World Champ

    Dec 4, 2004
    12,620
    Garage sales are typically exempt from sales tax and selling personal items and sales tax liability varies by state. See NY's discussion on it: https://www.tax.ny.gov/pubs_and_bulls/tg_bulletins/st/sales_from_your_home.htm
     
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  3. technom3

    technom3 F1 Rookie
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    The department of revenue was at the Scottsdale cars and coffee introducing themselves to montana plate people.
     
  4. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Cite please.
     
  5. Nospinzone

    Nospinzone F1 Rookie

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    My guess is they weren't buying donuts for the Montana plate people. :D
     
  6. technom3

    technom3 F1 Rookie
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    They were taking selfies with the plates the owners and their badges... that almost isnt exagerated... lol
     
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  7. 308 milano

    308 milano F1 Rookie
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    Where else can a guy talk cars and get entertainment like this! Probably not nearly as entertaining when you’re circumventing your state taxes LOL
     
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  8. CornersWell

    CornersWell F1 Rookie

    Nov 24, 2004
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    Been busy and missed this. Will post. It's a case between a taxpayer (Thomas) and LA Dept of Revenue. Was an administrative proceeding, adjudicated against taxpayer by the Dept of Revenue. LA legal system overturned that adjudication. Went to LA Supreme Court. Slight different fact pattern (vehicle was not garaged in LA, but MS), though. LA sought sales tax revenue (as opposed to on-going property tax revenues, IIRC). Taxpayer prevailed.

    Note: I have not shepardized the case. That means I haven't checked to see if it's still good law. Was a 2014 case, though, IIRC.

    CW
     
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  9. BMW.SauberF1Team

    BMW.SauberF1Team F1 World Champ

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    https://www.lasc.org/opinions/2014/13C1855.opn.pdf
     
  10. henryr

    henryr F1 World Champ
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    so then they go after the LLC ?
     
  11. CornersWell

    CornersWell F1 Rookie

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    Yes, that's the case I mean. Sure, they can, but on what basis is there long-arm jurisdiction? I don't see it.

    CW
     
  12. henryr

    henryr F1 World Champ
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    true

    but this whole thing probably cost him $50k in legal fees

    they get you one way or another
     
  13. CornersWell

    CornersWell F1 Rookie

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    Certainly had to put the cash out. Normally, there's fee shifting, and loser pays. So, maybe he can get it back. If he doesn't, he could look at whether it can be written off taxes.

    However, LA law is also somewhat unique, I understand, as it derives from a different source (French/Napoleonic as opposed to English common).

    CW
     
  14. Rohry

    Rohry Rookie
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    Jun 5, 2015
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    "I've never understood doing it unless you have a fleet of exotics... but whatever. I always thought it was a silly scheme that wouldn't last forever. My annual taxes on the 360 are like $30 in SC"
    That can't be right. I pay over $700 on my 2007 F430 in SC...In any case, where the money would be saved was at point of sale. A state with a sales tax (with no vehicle cap like SC has) would be billing you x% over the sales price. In my previous state of Maine (at 6%) a $150,000 car would result in a $9,000 tax bill (plus registration fees and property taxes) when you go to register it. I also used to live in New Hampshire (no sales tax, next state over) and you would pay a property tax only, no sales tax. People living in York County, Maine could save $9,000 by having an address in N.H.
     
  15. Rohry

    Rohry Rookie
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    "I don't know GA laws, but in MA the issue is where you garage the vehicle. If you garage it in Massachusetts and drive it on Massachusetts roads, you owe Massachusetts sales (upon purchase) and yearly excise tax. You can have a LLC on the moon, but if you don't garage your car there, you owe excise tax."

    I agree. Maine is the same situation as MA (despite my previous post to the other SC resident). The local police in the towns adjacent to NH cruise the neighborhoods looking for cars registered in NH and will give them a summons if they find them parked in repeatedly in a Maine town. They have been known to make people register their cars in Maine if the cars "reside there."
     
  16. Rohry

    Rohry Rookie
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    "If you don't have taxes, you don't have infrastructure. If you don't have infrastructure, you don't have a government. If you don't have a government, you don't have a nation. And I kind of like being an American, so let's not abolish the United States just yet."

    Partially true. As I understand it, however, sales taxes on cars do not go directly to infrastructure, which is a small piece of the operating budget for most states. Last I checked, New Hampshire (no sales tax) had excellent roads...
    Also, since you live in CA (I have a son who lives there) a big chunk of your auto sales tax is probably going towards building that high-speed rail boondoggle.
     
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  17. 19633500GT

    19633500GT F1 Veteran
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    Cmon. NH roads are not excellent lol.

    It was pretty par for the course growing up that the highway and road crew had to routinely "shave" down frost heaves and massive "rolls", that, if you had enough carry speed through, you could get all 4 tires off the ground :)

    But yes, no sales tax is awesome, but top 5 for property tax gets a big chunk back. CT and MA and their personal property taxes are the thing that really guts me. I ****ing OWN my car, why do I owe ANYTHING every two years on it? (this in addition to their $100 registration, or RE registration fee, and etc).

    Greed and incompetence.
     
  18. Hoodude

    Hoodude Formula 3
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    A reminder of this thread since MrDraneas recent article in his LegalFile in SCM and his use of blunt words,cheating,in regards to out of state registration of vehicles. I sent him a short note about the arbitrary capricious unreasonable disproportionate inappropriate implausible specious way some states cobble away at rulings. He did not have time to muse on each states rules on the issue but seems you’re ok driving a car but trouble rises up when you put it in a garage,huh. Maintain,I think was the word.
    Deadweight loss is an economic term about taxes imposed resulting in no gain. People make adjustments to avoid taxes. Note not evade...it’s about being inefficient and unfair. Also semantics and rhetorical,innit.
    OWHolmes said it’s good sense to pay the amount of taxes owed,not more.CheersRE
     
  19. EastMemphis

    EastMemphis Formula Junior
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    The situation regarding Montana registration seems pretty much moot in Tennessee. I've saved a LOT of money by registering our vehicles in that state. There is no property tax in TN so that's probably why they leave us alone. I don't flaunt it though and keep my license plates out of pictures and postings to social media.
     
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  20. randkin

    randkin Formula 3

    Aug 2, 2015
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    Well the issue of any kind of taxes seems to me, how an individual sees the fairness of the tax relative to their own situation and value in the manor the tax revenue is used. Weather the tax is a registration fee, a gas tax, sales tax or income tax etc. Quite frankly many taxes are not “fair” at all especially when the same dollar has been taxes so many times in so many way, it is just that the political majority is able to get the tax passed.

    Some people may not feel that “progressive” taxes are fairly administered while others not paying little or any taxes feel the tax should be more aggressively levied. Additionally there are so many examples how tax monies are foolishly squandered at all levels of government and thus value relative to the amount of tax paid is not perceived by those paying the tax. I do not see any moral correctness to taxes as being right or wrong. Taxes or any law for that manor are just what the political majority at the time of passage says is politically acceptable, neither morally right or not.

    Until the various levels of government can demonstrate a universal tax “fairness” to all taxpayers as well demonstrating value of tax revenue spent, to those folks “paying” the taxes, the folks paying the tax will always attempt to find a method to pay the very least tax possible.

    IMO the example of registering cars in different states for tax advantage demonstrates the points I have enumerated above.
     
  21. LightGuy

    LightGuy Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Why tax a used car at all ?
    What are the exact perceived benefits that the authorities grant in exchange for a cut of this transaction ?
    What goods or services do they provide ?
     
  22. Daddy

    Daddy Rookie

    Jun 4, 2018
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    There is no logical reason besides the fact that greedy and inept politicians want more of your money.

    The only thing worse is the chumps who gladly comply and try to shame others to capitulate.
     
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  23. 308 milano

    308 milano F1 Rookie
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    No logical reason? Yeah, roadways/highways just magically repair themselves. Always be some *** clown trying to get a free ride off others Footing the bill.
     
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  24. Daddy

    Daddy Rookie

    Jun 4, 2018
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    Imagine this... some guy from Montana telling me I need to pay more taxes on my car. LOL.
     
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  25. 308 milano

    308 milano F1 Rookie
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    Sounds like you stretched to purchase the car but can’t afford costs associated with ownership..
     
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