Mondials got new Boots, wadda you think? | Page 2 | FerrariChat

Mondials got new Boots, wadda you think?

Discussion in 'Mondial' started by jscar71, Oct 27, 2004.

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  1. jscar71

    jscar71 Formula Junior

    Jul 14, 2004
    354
    Montreal Qc, Canada
    Full Name:
    JScar
    I actually live in the West Island, which is basically the western part of Montreal. I actually don't want to paint the bumpers, but I am looking for the 86 and up mondial bumpers. any ideas where to get them?
     
  2. jscar71

    jscar71 Formula Junior

    Jul 14, 2004
    354
    Montreal Qc, Canada
    Full Name:
    JScar
    Back seats are very practical, I stick 2 car seats back there and the kids are super happy and look forward for the rides. My kids are 3.5 and 2. And I have pretty chunky car seats. If you like I can send you a pic of the interior with the car seats in it.
     
  3. jscar71

    jscar71 Formula Junior

    Jul 14, 2004
    354
    Montreal Qc, Canada
    Full Name:
    JScar
    It's a free world, if we all liked the same thing, the world would be a boring place. Thanks for the opinion.
     
  4. Mojo

    Mojo Formula 3

    Sep 24, 2002
    1,293
    Washington St.
    Full Name:
    Joseph
    My god that looks GREAT. I have never cared about those cars, didn't hate them but thought they were a little tame for a Ferrari.
    But you have made that car BEAUTIFUL, I would be proud to drive that!!!
    I also feel its the right height. Very Cool. :D
     
  5. CAS

    CAS F1 Rookie

    Nov 6, 2003
    2,683
    San Diego, CA
    Full Name:
    Clint
    I wasn't suggesting hacking up the original springs or altering the suspension; just a simple lowering kit from Eibach would add a lot visually to the car, as the wheel gap looks a bit odd.

    You must be one of those guys that thinks the factory designs everything perfectly and the aftermarket is totally worthless. (Although, in the context of Ferrari, there's not a lot that can be improved by going to the aftermarket to modify the car.)
     
  6. dakharris

    dakharris Two Time F1 World Champ

    Jun 7, 2001
    29,441
    Sleepy Hollow
    Full Name:
    Cavaliere Senzatesta
    I wouldn't lower a Mondial. It's already too low for many driveways, not to mention parking lot curbs. Are slotted/drilled brake rotors available? That would finish the job of nicely.
     
  7. WJHMH

    WJHMH Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Sep 5, 2001
    25,364
    Panther City, Texas
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    WJHMH
    When I saw the post I thought you ment CV boots. At least it looks better than the stock mondial rims, I never was a fan of those.
     
  8. Exoticbro

    Exoticbro Karting

    Nov 1, 2003
    203
    St.Louis, MO
    Full Name:
    Chuck Ligon
    I think it looks great!!
    The stock rims leave a lot to b desired.
    One of the things I can't understand is why the Mondial takes such a beating.
    I know it is a 2+2 but what other mid engine exotic convertibles are out there.
     
  9. Godfather

    Godfather Formula Junior

    Nov 7, 2002
    487
    Fiorano
    The Mondial is a great car. The wheels wouldn't be my first choice but they look good. I would do some suspension change.
     
  10. doug328

    doug328 Formula 3

    Mar 11, 2004
    1,599
    The Space Coast, FL
    Full Name:
    Doug B
    great looking rims, updates the whole look of the car. The wider tread gives the rear a much more "eat up the road" look.
     
  11. Auraraptor

    Auraraptor F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Sep 25, 2002
    13,196
    MO
    Anyone who knows anytihng about Mondials knows they are hard to lower.
     
  12. amenasce

    amenasce Three Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 17, 2001
    33,014
    Full Name:
    Joe Mansion
    :)

    Other than the wheels , i love your car. It looks mint.

    Glad you didnt take it the bad way.

    As said , the most important is how you see your car :)

    Enjoy !
     
  13. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

    Feb 22, 2003
    10,213
    San Antonio
    Full Name:
    Russ Turner
    Yes they are. :)
     
  14. don_xvi

    don_xvi F1 Rookie

    Nov 1, 2003
    2,934
    Outside Detroit
    Full Name:
    Don the 16th
    "Why?"
     
  15. Auraraptor

    Auraraptor F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Sep 25, 2002
    13,196
    MO
  16. judge4re

    judge4re F1 World Champ

    Apr 26, 2003
    13,477
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    Dr. Dumb Ass
    I have limited design responsibility in my day job, i.e. I sign off on drawings for components that go onto cars. If you knew how much testing and documentation needs to go into each change, you'd be hesitant to say "let's lower it an inch" too.

    I'm not a big fan of aftermarket equipment, mainly becaused I've had to remove it during restorations and have never been impressed with a lot of it. Stock might "suck" in your view, but remember, everything on a car is a compromise, usually done to make the component perform legally and safely.
     
  17. judge4re

    judge4re F1 World Champ

    Apr 26, 2003
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    Dr. Dumb Ass
    Speaking on behalf of the crazy fringe element, they're actually 390's...
     
  18. dave_fonz_164

    dave_fonz_164 Formula 3

    Mar 11, 2004
    1,658
    Montreal, Canada
    Full Name:
    Davide Giuseppe F.

    great car, im in montreal, wat neighborhood is that, good to see some ferraris from La Belle Province
     
  19. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

    Feb 22, 2003
    10,213
    San Antonio
    Full Name:
    Russ Turner
    :)

    I thought all Mondial guys were a crazy fringe element
     
  20. F40

    F40 F1 Rookie

    Apr 16, 2003
    3,230
    AZ
    I was going to say, that really doesn't look like montreal... Where in the West Island are you? I'm from Pierrefonds and Pincourt.
     
  21. judge4re

    judge4re F1 World Champ

    Apr 26, 2003
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    True. But the ones that are willing to own a V8 2+2 and a V12 2+2 at the same time are certifiable nutcases!
     
  22. Zertec

    Zertec Formula 3

    Oct 5, 2004
    1,335
    Singapore
    Full Name:
    Clive Reed
    #47 Zertec, Oct 28, 2004
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Why change the round things at each corner:

    The original 390mm rims cannot accept modern tyres, you are stuck with the M-TRX (55 ratio) tyres. Tyre technology has moved on in the last 2 decades and, good though the Michelins are, they are not as good as almost all modern high performance tyres. This is one of the main reasons in the desire to upgrade. A further benefit to changing the rims is that the original wheels now look somewhat dated.

    One of the difficulties with the original wheels and tyres is that they don't fill the arches well, there is a void stretching about 2.5 inches (7cms for those metric among us) between the top of the tyre and the edge of the wheel arch. This is not needed for clearance purposes and can be reduced especially at the rear. This reduction can be achieved either with a larger tyre/wheel package, suspension adjustment (lower) or bodywork changes.

    The Solution:

    The 360 rims are visually special - simply, clean and they scream "Ferrari". They are 18" that will allow the use of a good high performance low profile tyre and offer the potential for brake upgrades. The rolling circumference of the standard 360 fronts (215/45) is actually 0.5% smaller than the TRX 240/55s exacerbating the void mentioned above. The rolling circumference of the standard 360 rear tyre/wheel package (275/40) is about 3.4% larger than the original metric set up. These larger rear wheels/tyres are slightly better at filling in the wheel arch gaps. The larger rears do however, change the overall final gearing thereby affecting the acceleration and speedometer reading, possibly making the latter more accurate!

    Simply bolting the wheels straight onto the hubs works well enough however it produces a couple of problems. Firstly, as mentioned above, on the front has a now smaller than original round thing filling the gap. To solve this problem there is only one really effective solution, the radius of the wheel arch opening must be reduced. This is obviously not for the fainthearted. Secondly, with the rear the new wider package actually is flush with the extreme edge of the wheel arch which then gives the impression that the tyre/wheel is sticking out beyond the bodywork as, conventionally, cars are designed with the bodywork further outboard than the edge of the wheel/tyre. Once again the only real solution is to change the wheel arch, this time moving it further outboard.

    Comments:

    Interestingly one of the effects of a straight swap (no suspension changes) between the original Mondial wheels/tyres and the 360 package is that, due to the now slightly different heights of the front and rear wheel/tyre combinations, the ground clearance is increased at the rear and reduced at the front. This may be imperceptible to the naked eye but it is actually a desirable improvement in terms of ground effect. In everyday practical driving it will of course be completely unnoticeable!

    In the exterior design of my Mondial Z I have attempted to address the issues surrounding the 360 rims with bodywork modifications in the overall design. Note that in the image the Mondial Z is on axle stands so the wheels are hanging down whereas in the other 2 images the car is on the ground.
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  23. judge4re

    judge4re F1 World Champ

    Apr 26, 2003
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    I was trying not to get dragged into this too deep, so I'll try to keep my comments simple.

    Going to a bigger wheel with modern tires creates two problems really. The first is the "grip" of the modern rubber. While the old TRX tires aren't as sticky as modern compounds, the bushings and spring rates were designed with this level of grip in the design. Mind you most people aren't really going to flog the hell out of a Mondial, but you are changing the loads on the suspension components to higher than their original design loads. Will it have an effect, yes. Will it cause something ugly to happen, it could but I haven't crunched the numbers to see if everything will still work the same.

    The second issue is going to a bigger rim. In changing the diameter of the wheel/tire, you're effectively changing the alignment of the suspension and bump steer (which should have been minimized in the original factory design) can rear its ugly head. Lowering the front end will have such a low effect on the "ground effect" on the car that it would be negligible, but it will change the way the car steers.

    Dynamics for road cars is more about mechanical grip than aero grip. Mechanical grip provides more feedback unless you are a really skilled driver. One only has to look at the first season of the 360 Challenge cars to see how many crashes occurred by trying to cut the corners over the curbs resulting in loss of front downforce.

    I'm not against making something perform better on a car (my Mondial does have a new stereo and an upgraded fuse box), but just make sure you know what you're doing when you change things. Besides, its not like I'm looking at how full the wheel arches look when I'm driving the car...
     
  24. Zertec

    Zertec Formula 3

    Oct 5, 2004
    1,335
    Singapore
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    Clive Reed
    The desire for more grip is of course the most important reason for modernising the car/ground interface. The problems you highlight are not insurmountable.

    We have considered the effect on the suspension with the new rims. With previous work on TVRs with our WRC suspension engineer we succeeded improving everything to such a level that new cars were being brought to us for changes. The intention is that when the Mondial Z is finished (new CF body and interior) proper measurements can be taken (corner weights, heights etc.) and modifications to the suspension and settings can be worked out. We will not go as far as rose-jointing the suspension but where ever possible improved components will be used.

    I also cannot see the wheel arches from the driver's seat but I believe that a car must also look good as well as perform. It is a complete object and should be more than the sum of its parts (IMHO).

    I will keep you advised of progress. BTW where is your Mondial, China or elsewhere?
     
  25. judge4re

    judge4re F1 World Champ

    Apr 26, 2003
    13,477
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    Clive:

    Sounds like you know what you're doing on the Z, but its been my experience that most people that change the wheels don't have a clue what the effect will be. Good luck on the project and yes, I would like to see pics when its done.

    I'm an engineer. I'd rather it work right first. Then, if there is time, fiddle with how it looks. The world needs both types of people...

    I keep the Ferraris in the USA. I think it would be easier (and probably cheaper) for me to buy a new one here than try and import one, but I like the older cars.

    Cheers,
    Erik
     

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