Mondial vs 911 | Page 2 | FerrariChat

Mondial vs 911

Discussion in 'Mondial' started by SFchallenge, May 24, 2005.

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  1. peterp

    peterp F1 Veteran

    Aug 31, 2002
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    It sounds like you're looking for a car you don't need to worry about and is reasonably economical. The Porsche is probably the better answer because the maintenance cost is much lower and the fuel economy is much better. The Mondial only gets about 12 MPG in typical driving -- it probably gets about 18-20 on the highway, but the city real-world city mileage is poor (I'm not sure why). The real expense on the Mondial is the 30K service, which is about $4-5K and the amount of time that the car will be down when you need parts could be quite long for a daily commuter. That is the practical side -- which is important for what you are looking for. That being said, I owned an 87 Carrera and an 86 Mondial at the same time for about 6 months before I sold the Porsche, and I almost never drove the Carrera during that time. The Mondial is just a lot more fun and it has been very reliable in the 3 years I have owned it. If you had to pick one car, the Ferrari might be the way to go -- but as a back-up for your 348, the Porsche will probably be easier and more economical to live with, particularly given your fuels costs (I think the Carrera averages about 18-20MPG vs 12 on the Mondial 3.2).
     
  2. peterp

    peterp F1 Veteran

    Aug 31, 2002
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    I forgot to mention rear-seat room -- it is much better on the Mondial than the 911, though the front passenger seat on the Mondial is a little difficult to get into with the seat pushed forward when someone is in back. The 911 seats are not very useful. It looks like the rear-seat room is slightly larger on the newer 996's, but I'm not sure of that.
     
  3. ferraripete

    ferraripete F1 World Champ

    i am interested in this thread as there seems a huge bias in the mondials favor. not a surprise is the mondial is a very nice car and when the value proposition is considered, it is a tremendous deal. but i don't know how it is being compared to the 3.2 carrera? should it not be more in line w/ the 928 s4?

    in any event, the 3.2 carrera will dance on the mondial in acceleration, cornering and braking.

    additionally, if a daily driver is what is desired, the 3.2 carrera will be bullet proof, safe to park, and if well maintained, hold its' value or make the very best transition into a pca club racer!

    i love the 308 (i own a 6k mile qv), but the 911's are a very pure expression of a sports car!

    have fun w/ your search.

    pcb
     
  4. Bullfighter

    Bullfighter Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 26, 2005
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    I think the original post was because he had found a 911 and a Mondial, so it was specific to these two cars that are for sale. But you're right, I'd compare a 928 to a Mondial, 911 to 308/328.

    And, as a 911 owner, I can say I take my time looking for the right parking space. Even if it was much older I'd take care of it.

    I wouldn't vote for the 944. You get a tiny hatchback, less performance, more pedestrian looks (in my opinion - hatchbacks just haven't aged well in general), Porsche repair costs and another joke of a back seat. For a weekend track car, the turbo's fun. But if you need four seats and somewhere to stow stuff, 928.
     
  5. E36 Pilot

    E36 Pilot Rookie

    Oct 10, 2004
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    Ted
    I don't have quite the level of experience as some of the others who have posted but I do have some advice from a friend of mine, a certified Porsche-nut. When I was looking for an older 911 he said the ONLY model worth considering of that vintage was the SC, mainly because it's known to be one of the more reliable 911s. Regardless of service though, it might just be fun to have two enthusiast-oriented cars (SC and 348) that appeal to somewhat different sensibilities and groups.

    Good luck with your decision.
     
  6. SFerrari

    SFerrari Karting

    Nov 3, 2003
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    MG
    Of course, go for the Mondial.
    I'd leave any, even modern, Porsche for any Mondial (expect 8 model).
    It's just another world, simply.
    And I get EASILY 2 adults in the rear seats, and for quite long distance trips, so no pb. Absolutly reliable if used frequently and well maintened.
    Go for the 3.2 model if possible, maybe the most enjoyeable one.

    Good luck.

    Matthieu.
     
  7. Rosso308

    Rosso308 Rookie

    Oct 20, 2004
    7
    First Ferrari I ever drove was a 1982 Mondial 8. Yuck. The only positive thing I remember about it was that sound, otherwise it felt like an old rattle trap. Yeah sure not all of them are like that, but i've never driven an SC that wasn't less than perfect. Old 911s are extremely reliable, i'd trust one more than most new cars. If it was a 3x8 or 911SC, I'd give my nod to the Ferrari without question, but a Mondial....not exactly a Ferrari masterpiece, but if you want the Ferrari badge, go for it. Otherwise, the SC will run circles around an old Mondial any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

    And to whoever said the Mondial handled better than a 944, keep dreaming.
     
  8. peterp

    peterp F1 Veteran

    Aug 31, 2002
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    The performance comparison isn't that straightforward. There is no comparison given a Mondial 8, but a QV against and SC or a Mondial 3.2 against a Carrera is closer than you think. Comparing my 86 Mondial 3.2 and 87 Carrera, there are a few surprises. First, the Ferrari engine is much more powerful -- it generates 260HP from 3.2 liters while the Carrera 3.2 has 214 (and 208 in the 84-86 models). The Ferrari engine is also super-responsive in comparison to the Carrera -- at any RPM it is ready to go and accelerates hard with light throttle touch. The Carrera only really starts to pull hard with very heavy throttle and at high RPMs. The problem is the Mondial is heavy -- I think about 3300 pounds compared to the Carrera at 2750. But the responsiveness and power of the engine in tandem with the low gearing in the Mondial make up for it (both cars have about the same speed in gears, but the Mondial revs to 7700RPM vs 6200 on the Porsche, so the Mondial is much lower geared). In 90% of driving, the Mondial feels and is much faster and more responsive -- but in flat out runs the Porsche will edge it out. I had a friend ride in both Carrera and the Mondial -- he was never impressed with the Porsche power even with my foot to the floor, but was blown away by how the Mondial pulls when I was just driving with light throttle pressure. I have always been a big Porsche fan, but it feels very sedate and boring after driving the Mondial. Somebody else could interpret the same experience as the Porsche being more refined, it's all a matter of judgement. After driving both though, I don't think too many would say the Porsche is more powerful unless they were at the drag strip. Handling nods probably go to the Porsche -- the Mondial is much better balanced, but is just too heavy. Porsche has always had great brakes and is helped by the rear weight bias. The Mondial brakes will fade after repeated stops probably because of a combination of so-so brakes and heavy weight. If you want to track a car, you'll be faster in the Porsche, but I find the Mondial significantly preferable for spirited driving on the street.
     
  9. Rosso308

    Rosso308 Rookie

    Oct 20, 2004
    7
    Well nice try, but not quite. I agree with a few things, yes the Mondial will have more useable performance. The Carrera engines are highly tuned to max capacity and need to be revved for power, however I have never found one them to be anemic or lacking for day to day around town driving, even if they do lack low end power next to a Mondial QV. Secondly, of course Ferrari is going to be more exhilarating to drive. But, the 911 is still a very distinct automobile to drive, in a very Germanic way. It reeks of excellence and quality.

    However, the Performance of the two is not at all close in anyway. I happen to have some old Road and Track reprints sitting here. The Mondial QV managed a meager 7.1 seconds to 60, moving on to 15.3 in the quarter. A 3.2 Carrera Cab of a similar year hit the same figures in 5.7 and 14.3, respectively. That’s a significant difference, and the Porsche in question wasn't even a coupe. Also, the Mondial offers a very loud and aural driving expereince, which psychologically makes it seem like the car is faster, while the Porsche is very refined, not leading you to believe your really moving until you look down at the speedometer.

    But, it’s all completely subjective anyway so we can argue for the next thousand years and get nowhere, so to each their own, get what you like, and enjoy your car.
     
  10. tamf328

    tamf328 Formula Junior

    Mar 9, 2005
    477
    I own both an 88 911 cab and a 88 328 gts. I think the Porsche is bullet proof. Been in the family since new. Rarely has issues, cheaper to maintain than that Ferrari. I use the porsche every day. But I think my ferrari would be fine using it every day too. It hasn't given me any problems in the last year, but I don't drive it as much. One thing, Ferrari parts are over priced. The Ferrari is much more fun to drive, hands down....
    I like having the Ferrari so much that I am looking for a 12 cylinder model.
    I've owned lots of sports cars, enjoy the Ferrari the most.
    If cost and maintenance is an issue, than logically I'd say Porsche for every day use.
     
  11. peterp

    peterp F1 Veteran

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    Well, it isn't really a "try" because I owned both cars and drove them side by side for an extended period of time and I have no bias against the Porsche (I'm currently looking for one for my wife). The Porsche is more refined and less fragile than the Mondial, but the Mondial is very reliable even though it has it's quirks. Some will prefer refined and some will prefer raw. In terms of performance, it is more accurate to compare the Carrera against a Mondial 3.2 rather than the QV (which is a 3.0 liter). A period Car & Driver test of the Mondial 3.2 recorded 0-60 at 6.3 seconds (this is the fastest time I've seen recorded). The 5.7 time for the Carrera was about as fast as they tested even though it was a Cab in this case -- a lightened "club sport" version also tested at 5.7 secs at the time. The Mondial 0-60 is handicapped by a slightly awkward 1-2 shift because of the shift pattern -- this is an example of a "quirk" that is not justifiable by any objective perspective, but nonetheless I would not give up the gated shifter if I had a choice. I don't recall the specifics, but in the quarter mile times and 0-120 type tests the Porsche lead becomes more profound. There is no right or wrong view -- the Porsche wins by every objective measure -- but the Mondial wins a few that aren't apparent in the stats -- particularly in everyday performance where it delivers the opposite of what just about anybody would expect. The main point, that extends beyond the discussion of these two cars, is that it is important to drive the cars to get an understanding of what they are about. I prefer the Mondial, but I can easily see how somebody would prefer the Carrera (In fact I recommended the Carrera for everyday use in responsing to SFchallenge's original question). Both are great cars -- everybody knows that about the Porsche (it isn't even refutable) -- not everybody realizes that about the Mondial.
     
  12. SFchallenge

    SFchallenge F1 World Champ

    Jun 28, 2004
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    Hi guys, thanks for all the inputs. The reason I compared is because I found those two. Both were quite identical in terms of engine capacity, condition, colours & year. Unfortunately, there's not a single 3.2 Mondial here not to mention a "T". I've yet found time to try the 911 but I took a drive on the Mondial & it can be really quite exciting if driven hard like 5-6000rpm. In fact, it out performs many modern saloon cars, such a pity that many people gave such poor reviews on a Mondial. Yes, looks might not be most exciting but the sound & feel is quite unique. Porsche sounds like a highly tuned Volkswagon but is definitely quite a reliable bet. The paper statistics were when the cars were new 20years ago. So, we'll be a bit realistic on the age & condition of these cars now. Suspension, tires, brakes, engine etc can make a lot of difference when they age. I'll write again when I've concluded soon. Meanwhile, keep em coming! :)
     
  13. judge4re

    judge4re F1 World Champ

    Apr 26, 2003
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    The only people that are critical of the Mondials have never owned one. I'll even go out on a limb and say that the people that "bash" them, can't afford a Ferrari anyway.
     
  14. SFchallenge

    SFchallenge F1 World Champ

    Jun 28, 2004
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    Well, actually those who speak ill of it are the Ferrari owners here. They just don't like the style & most likely never driven one. I'm surprised it's so well accepted in US. Actually, the first Ferrari I ever driven was a Mondial 8QV coupe in Red & Tan several years ago.
     
  15. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran

    Jun 20, 2003
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    I own an 83 Mondial QV. It is a blast to drive. What fantastic handling! It's no drag racer though. A child seat fits in the back just fine. Kids fit in the back well. Adults are cramped, but its OK for a short ride. It helps if the driver has short legs! I can't compare to the Porsche...never had one. But lets face it, the Mondial is so much hotter looking! YEAH BABY!!

    Birdman
     
  16. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran

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    ZING!! Ouch!!! Go get 'em Judge!!

    Birdman
     
  17. peterp

    peterp F1 Veteran

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    I don't think it is a money issue and I don't even think the bashers have any ill-intent. If you read about the car in a magazine, the stats aren't impressive and it is easy to get a negative view of the car and be "certain" that it is fact. Not many people have the chance to drive them and therefore the negative impression proliferates because many people are trashing based upon magazine stats based analysis. I really don't care even slightly whether somebody appreciates my Mondial or not, the only reason for elaborating here is to help others sift through the noise -- hopefully a few will check out a car they wouldn't have considered and become as happy with it as we are with our decision. I have always switched cars every 2 years and am ready to switch after 1. I'm going on 3 years with the Mondial and don't have the slightest inclination to switch. In fact, I enjoy it as much today as when I bought it (which is a very strong statement given the initial giddiness that is unavoidable with your first Ferrari purchase). For some, it will be too noisy and quirky to live with on a regular basis -- but those who appreciate it's unique traits and are comfortable with the costs should probably take the dive.
     
  18. peterp

    peterp F1 Veteran

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    I have only driven one QV -- and that particular example was pretty beat, so I'm not certain it was representative. I also found that that car required 5k-ish revs to become exciting, but I didn't find it a huge obstacle because the car revs so effortlessly. On the 3.2, it really is very responsive from 2500RPM and up in partial throttle situations (I wouldn't floor it at 2K RPM). Sometimes I rev to over 5K in norrmal driving, but it isn't necessary. I think there is a lot of variability among specific cars, my car runs much better today than when I got it -- part of the difference was an exhaust recirculation hose that you wouldn't think would have much performance impact. It's too bad there isn't a 3.2 around for you to compare. I can't comment conclusively because the sample size is too small, but my guess would be that the QV and 3.2 are closer in flat-out performance than they are in low-end response and day-to-day drivability. That's my limited experience, but someone else on the board who owned both a European QV and a US 3.2 and didn't find much of a performance difference between the 2.

    Despite my general preference for the Mondial, I still think the Porsche might be a more practical back-up for your 348. One thing I found about Porsches is that the per-car performance variability with older models is very high -- my theory has been that it is related to cam timing differences between samples, but that might be completely wrong. In any case, you should drive a few Porsche samples if possible. Good luck in your search.
     
  19. Dr Tommy Cosgrove

    Dr Tommy Cosgrove Three Time F1 World Champ
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    May 4, 2001
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    I drove a 911 for about a week earlier this year while housesitting for a good friend. The biggest problem that I had with the car was that I really liked it. I could just hop into it and run the the corner for a paper when it was stone cold. I would NEVER even consider that in my 308. The 911 was like driving a really (really) fast Honda. As daily transportation I would seriously consider a 911. I never would any 80's Ferrari - and like I have said a thousand times on this site - nobody loves those older 80's Ferraris more then me.
     
  20. Bullfighter

    Bullfighter Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 26, 2005
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    I'd get off that limb - I don't think the price difference between a Mondial and a contemporary 911 is really significant. They both cost less than a lot of big bland SUVs, and resale (and resale-ability) of a 911 is pretty much legendary in the auto market.

    While I try NOT to use my 911 for milk runs, the car warms up quickly, doesn't complain and happily goes from Jekyll to Hyde as soon as your right foot asks. When something does go wrong, we have two Porsche dealerships nearby who can take care of it in a day or two.

    Love Ferrari's and hope to add one to the 'fleet' this summer, but when it comes to those can't-afford-to-be-late dashes to the airport I won't be reaching for the Ferrari keys.
     
  21. Dr Tommy Cosgrove

    Dr Tommy Cosgrove Three Time F1 World Champ
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    can't disagree with you about that
     

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