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Mondial expert needed, willing to travel!

Discussion in 'Mondial' started by simon birch, Dec 13, 2019.

  1. simon birch

    simon birch Rookie

    Dec 13, 2019
    12
    Full Name:
    simon birch
    Hi Guys
    I have a 1985 Mondial QV cab. A one owner from new that I acquired some years ago through AutoItalia, the Ferrari dealer where I live here in Hong Kong.
    It seems this city is running our of classic car mechanics and I've just had my car delivered back from a car shop where the chief mechanic gave up trying to get it fixed, and he was originally the boss from the main Ferarri dealer. And this is the second attempt to fix the electrical issues in a year.
    The car won't start and it's clearly the wiring, which has been messed with over many years to the point it's apparently too challenging for anyone here to fix. No one can find what wires do what and it needs a real expert to investigate.
    Up until this point, the car has been great other than slow windows that I'm aware of being a well-known issue and the fuse box and fuel pumps issues associated with that.
    I'm looking for someone that knows their way around this model that would be up for being flown out here to work on the car as I have given up on finding local help.
    Let me know if you're that person and are up for an adventure. I'll be ordering a new fuse box ahead of any new attempt as I've read the many threads on electrical problems.
    I really think this is a viable option, find someone overseas and bring them to the car.

    Thanks!
     
  2. sixcarbs

    sixcarbs F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 19, 2004
    7,106
    SF
    I passed your post on to Motob. He's in the San Francisco area and an electrical wizard when it comes to these cars.

    Good luck!
     
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  3. simon birch

    simon birch Rookie

    Dec 13, 2019
    12
    Full Name:
    simon birch
    Thanks so much!
     
  4. mike32

    mike32 F1 Rookie

    May 13, 2016
    2,848
    Uk
    I take it you have the wiring diagrams, as i can help u out with a copy if needed
     
  5. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    Nov 29, 2001
    10,169
    San Carlos, CA
    Full Name:
    Mitchell Le
    Simon,

    Give more details.

    Car won't start since when?
    What was done to the car right before it stopped working?
    Why do you believe it's the wiring?
    This is a coupe, spider?
    What have the mechanic(s) done so far?
    Do you have any resources? Tools? Lifts? Wiring diagrams? A place to work?

    You live in Hongkong? Outside of HK? Kowloon?
    What are your expectations for fixing this car? Sky is the limit or …?
     
    paulchua likes this.
  6. energy88

    energy88 F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jan 21, 2012
    13,139
    Fredericksburg, VA & Sarasota, FL
    Full Name:
    John
    Sounds like hungry rodents might be responsible. Wires typically don't suddenly go bad all by themselves. You might want to search on here about electrical rodent issue as it seems to be more common than one would otherwise think over time.
     
  7. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    26,949
    Austin TX
    Full Name:
    Brian Crall
    I'd ship the car to the person.
     
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  8. braq

    braq Karting

    Mar 29, 2010
    203
    Hill Island
    Full Name:
    Paul XXXcX
    Let's start with simple and essential stuff and we can make up our minds.

    Does the starter work?
    There is a good plus from the alternator nearby, why not 'handstart' with the car on the hoist to verify you have the actual gear in place and working.
    Then...if it does turn over...but no starting...look for the three things...fuel, spark, air

    The answers should really narrow the area you would want to look into further.
    cheers
    braq
     
  9. mike32

    mike32 F1 Rookie

    May 13, 2016
    2,848
    Uk
    With regard to not knowing what wires do what- they are colour coded and the diagrams are fairly easy to understand. Do u have the wiring diagrams to follow
     
  10. simon birch

    simon birch Rookie

    Dec 13, 2019
    12
    Full Name:
    simon birch
    Got those thanks so much!
     
  11. simon birch

    simon birch Rookie

    Dec 13, 2019
    12
    Full Name:
    simon birch
    Yes I do have the wiring diagrams but still can't get it to fire up or turn over. Not even a click when i turn the key.
     
  12. simon birch

    simon birch Rookie

    Dec 13, 2019
    12
    Full Name:
    simon birch
    Starter motor should be fine but I don't even get a click when I turn the key. I have power on, dash lights on, headlights not on, back windows not on, front windows up and down.
    Fuel yes, air yes, spark, well as mentioned, turn the key and it's silence. The shop pulled the wires and couldn't find a fault, fuses obviously checked too. Jump starting very difficult given the road layouts in Hong kong. Hard to get it to a hill.
    A few people have had a look and came away scratching their heads so I'm resorting to looking for expertise somewhere in the world....
    Thanks so much for your attention!
     
  13. simon birch

    simon birch Rookie

    Dec 13, 2019
    12
    Full Name:
    simon birch
    It's a year since the issue started which was the ignition buzzing dramatically with no turn over. Literally just turning the key to on and buzzing. and then it buzzed no longer and went to the shop. Thye had a hack at the wires and came up with no solution and they are supposed Ferrari experts.
    The only thing the car experienced up until then was a flat battery after not being driven for a few months which I replaced as first action...and then the buzzing, then the silence. And now everyone looking at wiring and fuses and no solution.
    I don't know what the problem is to be honest.
    It is a convertible.
    I switched the battery and that got all systems on except this ignition issue. The shop pulled the steering wheel base cover off and looked at the wiring to the ignition and things in the electrical chain including checking fuses. But no obvious damage or failure was found and no solution.
    I have space to work and the wiring diagrams. Basic tools but not a garage by any means, no way to raise the car.
    I'm in Central hong kong Island.
    I want to fully upgrade the car and fix a lot of loose ends, touch up the paint, redo the interior leather, and have a roof canvas replacement if I can find someone that can handle that.

    Let me know what else I can tell you and thanks for taking an interest.
     
  14. simon birch

    simon birch Rookie

    Dec 13, 2019
    12
    Full Name:
    simon birch
    cockroaches more of an issue than mice here in HK, the former being bigger than the latter!....but will have a look thanks.
     
  15. simon birch

    simon birch Rookie

    Dec 13, 2019
    12
    Full Name:
    simon birch
    Ha, easier said than done. They'd never let the car back in.
     
  16. mike32

    mike32 F1 Rookie

    May 13, 2016
    2,848
    Uk
    Take the rear wheel off and crawl under the car to find the starter motor and its solenoid. Connect a meter up to the big cable bringing the power in. You should have 12 volts.
    Now look for a small wire on the solenoid, pull the wire off- this is the 12 volt start signal from the key switch- turn the key to the start position and see if you get 12 volts.
    Now put the wire back on the solenoid and turn the key again, does it still show 12 volts or has it dropped. If it has dropped then you dont have enough volts to pull the solenoid in, this makes the circuit to send power to the starter.
    These cars have a know fault whereby they lose the 12 volts to the solenoid - if this is the fault then you can buy a relay kit to over come this fault.
     
  17. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    Nov 29, 2001
    10,169
    San Carlos, CA
    Full Name:
    Mitchell Le
    Do you have an alarm installed in the car, after market? It was often installed on Ferrari way back then.

    What model year is this Spider?
     
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  18. simon birch

    simon birch Rookie

    Dec 13, 2019
    12
    Full Name:
    simon birch
    Got it. Will do and report back. Thanks so much!
     
  19. simon birch

    simon birch Rookie

    Dec 13, 2019
    12
    Full Name:
    simon birch
    yes to alarm and it's 1985 QV cab.
    Will rip the alarm out first and see if any change.

    sb
     
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  20. mike32

    mike32 F1 Rookie

    May 13, 2016
    2,848
    Uk
    Have a look under the passenger side carpet where your feet go, you will find a steel plate. Check it does not have an immobilizer bolted to the back of it. They fitted aftermarket alarms and imobs here as only place in car with room
     
  21. HK Mondial

    HK Mondial Karting
    Silver Subscribed

    Mar 12, 2007
    69
    Sydney
    Full Name:
    Mark M.
    Hi Simon, I spoke with you recently at the workshop where your car is - you'll remember I have the same model car that I have owned for 20 yrs in HK. ( I suggested you start by replacing the fusebox ) As I mentioned, I have someone who has worked on my car exclusively for the time I've owned it & knows them inside out (replaced fusebox, rebuilt engine etc)
    If you want help, pm me.
     
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  22. braq

    braq Karting

    Mar 29, 2010
    203
    Hill Island
    Full Name:
    Paul XXXcX
    since your starter doesnt engage, try the solenoid with the 12V from the generator rather than the line from the lock, gear in neutral, just to check that what you are missing is the solenoid engaging and verifying the starter as good, cheers, paul
     
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  23. moysiuan

    moysiuan Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 1, 2005
    1,867
    Toronto, Canada
    Full Name:
    Andy
    The buzzing you heard after putting in a new battery is a good sign, that means your starter was getting voltage, that sound is typically the failing solenoid on the starter chattering away. It could be insufficient voltage, but given the car was running fine, and then it was not, I will place my bet on a failed starter solenoid.

    It is tempting to presume classic cars have more complex and vexxing problems, whereas most of the time it is the same old routine stuff that can fail on any car.

    A couple of posts have given you ideas on how to check the starter, or the voltage to the starter. This is the sensible diagnostic track.

    Eurospares has a used starter for a lower price than new. https://www.eurospares.co.uk/parts/ferrari/mondial-30-qv-1984/electrical-ignition/electric-generating-system-engine-with-2-individual-belt-39043

    Or you can get the aftermarket high torque starter. https://www.classiccarperformance.com/collections/ferraristarters-com/products/copy-of-ferrari-308-328-high-torque-starter

    Or you can get the unit rebuilt locally, the starters are Bosch and a rebuilder should be able to source a new solenoind and other wear parts.

    Don't mess around with wiring or immobilizers until you rule out the starter.
     
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  24. Wade

    Wade Three Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Mar 31, 2006
    32,197
    East Central, FL
    Full Name:
    Wade O.
    Do you know @afterburner ? He's in Hong Kong and is a long-term Mondial owner. Does lots of his own work as well.

    https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/members/afterburner.65805/
     
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  25. afterburner

    afterburner Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 20, 2008
    2,179
    Hong Kong
    #25 afterburner, Jan 1, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2020
    Simon hi - I presume you were the HK person mentioned by Ross at GT Car Parts recently?
    Re your problem:
    I have an additional relay in my car supplying direct power to the starter motor since somewhere in the original wiring/ignition key/connectors there was too much loss. Problem by-passed.
    I also have a full set of colored and named wiring diagrams, which makes reading easy.
     

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