Mondial Engine Fuse Block? | FerrariChat

Mondial Engine Fuse Block?

Discussion in 'Mondial' started by exproject, Dec 2, 2006.

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  1. exproject

    exproject Karting

    Sep 9, 2006
    106
    Denton, TX
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    Cameron R.
    #1 exproject, Dec 2, 2006
    Hey guys, you may remember me from a few months back when I was asking about ideas on fixing the intermittent electrical problem on my Mondial...

    Well, I'm just now getting around to that, heh.

    And I'm noticing something very odd. In the main fuse box, there is no fuel pump relay. The slot is open. I didn't take it out, and to my knowledge it's been that way since I bought it(and I've driven it without it)

    My main guess is that when Norwood turbocharged it, he redid the electrical system for the fuel pump when he upgraded the fuel system. Right now I'm trying to find which fuse or relay currently powers the fuel pump, since it's been moved.

    I found a fuse block inside the engine with 3(20,10,10) fuses in it, and I'm wondering if this is stock or not.

    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v472/Alucard8121/Engine002.jpg

    You can see it in the left side of the engine.
    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v472/Alucard8121/Engine003.jpg

    Is this stock, or something that Norwood did?
     
  2. jeffQV

    jeffQV F1 Rookie

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    #2 jeffQV, Dec 2, 2006
    I've checked my engine bay which I assume is stock and no such fuses etc live there, also checked the wiring book and doesn't seem to appear there either so guess somebody added later on.
     
  3. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

    Feb 22, 2003
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    #3 snj5, Dec 3, 2006
    That is not stock.
     
  4. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #4 Steve Magnusson, Dec 3, 2006
    Cameron -- (I'm just curious) -- does the fuel pump run with the ignition key in the "on" position when the engine is not running?
     
  5. exproject

    exproject Karting

    Sep 9, 2006
    106
    Denton, TX
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    Cameron R.
    #5 exproject, Dec 3, 2006
    Yeah, it acts as a normal Mondial would when you turn the key.

    I do hear the fuel pump whenever i turn the key to the on position. So that must be something that was put in to replace the relay....I suppose I dont have to worry about the fuse box heat problem as much now.

    I'm still just trying to find the short of what was grounding out the entire electrical system.

    EDIT: Apparently that's not normal what it does, I thought all Mondials did that.

    Like I said in my later post. When I turn the key, the fuel pump runs for 2 seconds, priming and pressurizing the injection rail.
     
  6. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

    Feb 22, 2003
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    #6 snj5, Dec 3, 2006
    In a 'normal' K-Jetronic Mondial (all stock engines except t), you would NOT hear the fuel pump when the key is just in the on position and the engine not running, but the pump comes on when the airmass plate senses airflow as the starter turns and the engine runs.
    If it is converted to EFI (or carbs), then you would probably hear the fuel pump with the key just in the on position at all times.
     
  7. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #7 Steve Magnusson, Dec 3, 2006
    As Russ already added, the fuel pump should not run under those conditions if working per the stock arrangement (and there's some safety downside to having it operate in that manner :().

    The 10A fuses aren't large enough to run even the stock Bosch CIS fuel pump if done directly so it's got to be the 20A one (if one of those three fuses is running the fuel pump directly) -- just try unplugging it/them to see if this disables the fuel pump with the key "on".
     
  8. exproject

    exproject Karting

    Sep 9, 2006
    106
    Denton, TX
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    Cameron R.
    #8 exproject, Dec 3, 2006
    When I turn the key to the on position, before using the starter motor, the fuel pump comes on for 2 seconds priming and pressurizing the line.

    After that 2 seconds it shuts off, until I turn the key to activate the starter motor.
     
  9. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #9 Steve Magnusson, Dec 3, 2006
    That sounds better (if it stops operation with no engine operation), but why can't you still just remove each fuse one at a time and see if the 2 second run period occurs or does not occur?
     
  10. exproject

    exproject Karting

    Sep 9, 2006
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    Cameron R.
    #10 exproject, Dec 3, 2006
    The 20 is the one that controls the fuel pump.

    I havent tested the two 10s though.
     
  11. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #11 Steve Magnusson, Dec 3, 2006
    OK that makes sense, and there is a fair amount of +12V power available in that added "sub-panel" that has to be coming from somewhere -- i.e., there has to be a modification somewhere with some fairly large wire(s) added so that's something to check to confirm if it's OK or not.

    But can you explain your problem a little more? If I literally translate:

    you'd be on fire ;) -- i.e., a "short" impling a massive unwanted current flow.

    Are you just sometimes losing all +12V power?
     
  12. exproject

    exproject Karting

    Sep 9, 2006
    106
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    Cameron R.
    #12 exproject, Dec 3, 2006
    What basically happens, is I will be driving along the road, and I'll hear the engine start to wind down, and it's dead. The tach will read a solid 0.. and all the electronics will be dead. the lights on the dash will be on but thats it. if i turn off the key then go back to the on position, then i wont even get those lights. When its like this, it will still crank, but the fuel pump wont work, its not getting any power, neither is anything else.


    I dont know whats causing it
     
  13. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 11, 2001
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    #13 Steve Magnusson, Dec 3, 2006
    Understood -- I would classify that as a fault in the primary wiring (i.e., something wrong in the big +12V cables, big ground cables, big connections, cut-off switch, etc.) rather than a "short".

    Unfortunately, I don't have a MondialQV wiring diagram so can't help specifically (maybe that bit about the odd dash lights behavior could be a clue). I'd go after locating where (and how) that fuel pump fuse gets it's +12V power -- one would guess either the large +12V cable at the back of the alternator or the large +12V cable at the stater. Since you report that the starter works (even with the problem) that is a good sign for the +12V branch going there (and for a good ground connection from the engine to the "-" battery terminal). If you can confirm/deny the voltage at the large alternator cable when you're having the problem that might be revealing -- just a thought...
     
  14. exproject

    exproject Karting

    Sep 9, 2006
    106
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    Cameron R.
    #14 exproject, Dec 3, 2006
    I'll check whats going into that box and report back on it.



    It appears were dealing with a new breed here, heh.
     
  15. exproject

    exproject Karting

    Sep 9, 2006
    106
    Denton, TX
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    Cameron R.
    #15 exproject, Dec 10, 2006
    Now this is something I'm just now noticing...

    Sometimes, when the drivers door is open...with or without the key in the ignition. It makes that high pitched whine that all the mondials do when the key is in the on position(going out on a limb here that all Mondials do that too..) and it wont stop until I shut the door or wiggle the bottom door switch.(Bottom of the two under the hinge)...odd.
     

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