Mondial - 16" wheels | FerrariChat

Mondial - 16" wheels

Discussion in 'Mondial' started by FezzaFella, Aug 20, 2006.

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  1. FezzaFella

    FezzaFella Karting

    May 8, 2006
    154
    Took my recently acquired 83 Mondial QV for a test today at reasonable speed with the new 16" (328) wheels and new Goodyear F1 GS-D3 rubber - 225/55-16 on 8" rims back and 215/55-16 on 7" rims front.

    What a disappointment compared to my last Mondial with the TRX's.

    We have the suspension set up as per Ferrari spec. Right camber/castor etc. It has new Koni Red shocks and standard springs/sway bars.

    In fast corners initial turn in is just OK, then understeers and a fight to get to apex, never feels like it is steering directly or going to stick with any line. Front always washes wide.

    Tried backing off mid corner to jolt car into oversteer and point at apex and it snaps into instant oversteer. At over 160kph this is a little more exciting than hoped. Lucky it was dry road or could have been been a Mondial off roader.

    Can you tell me if you have had same understeer experience with the 16x8/18x7 wheel config? I never had this lack of poise from my last Mondial with TRXs. Wondering if it is just the Goodyear's or if I need to do some serious upgrading of suspension. Koni yellows/harder springs/heavier sway bars.

    FF
     
  2. hackrider

    hackrider Karting

    Feb 9, 2006
    153
    Albuquerque, NM USA
    Full Name:
    Dave
    It's interesting that you find that great a differance. Don't blame the wheel size but do consider the differance in tires. I changed my TRX on my '83 Mondial QV to the 17" 348 wheels with Perilli Pzero. I had similar dissapointment util I got used to the new setup. Now it feels OK. Here is the tire test from August '05 where the Goodyear F1 came out on top overall.

    Patience.

    DAve
     
  3. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    25,124
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    Do you mean 328 ABS Wheels or 328 non-ABS wheels?
     
  4. FezzaFella

    FezzaFella Karting

    May 8, 2006
    154
    They are 328 ABS wheels. Apparently.

    We are going to harden the shocks progressively and pplay with tyre pressures.

    The tyres had 34lbs each (cold). Will try slightly less in front to see iff that gives any more grip.

    FF
     
  5. ckracing

    ckracing Formula Junior

    May 20, 2006
    728
    Jacksonville,Florida
    Full Name:
    Charles
    I have an 81 Mondial, I purchased a set of 348 wheels, spacers, and longer wheel bolts. WHAT a difference, the 348 wheels made!!!!!!!. My Mondial handles so much better.

    Charles
     
  6. FasterIsBetter

    FasterIsBetter F1 Veteran

    Jul 22, 2004
    5,844
    NoNJ/Jupiter FL
    Full Name:
    Steve W.
    That was my first thought. 34lbs sounds a bit high, especially up front. Drop fronts to 32, see if that helps, otherwise, try 32 rear, 30 front and see if that improves things. Remember, as you drive, the tires heat up and pressures rise. Did you check the pressures hot after your run? Also, if you have a pyrometer, check the tire temps immediately after running, inner side, center and outer side of running surface. That will help to tell you if you are under or over inflated, or if your camber is off.
     
  7. enjoythemusic

    enjoythemusic F1 World Champ

    Apr 20, 2002
    10,676
    Worldwide
    Full Name:
    Steven
    Agree with others. While i have zero experience with those tires, the Mich Pilot PS2 like to 'see' about 34 to max 35 PSI when HOT.

    As for suspension, have done quite a bit of development work in that regard. If you have the dreaded front nose UP syndrome, see if you could corner weight the car to get an idea about weight distribution. The 308GTS QV here is at about 44% front and 56% rear.

    Stock, the 308 here had horrible understeer during spirited driving. Have a feeling this is the way the factory dialed the car in :( If you do track driving feel free to use Fchat search function for various suspension mods including bushings, Nick Forza shocks, and various spring rates and uprated (adjustable) sway bars.

    As for the snap oversteer, have experienced that on the track with the Generation II suspension and have pretty much solved that with Generation III suspension.

    Guess it all comes down to how much development time/money you are willing to invest into the car.
     
  8. FezzaFella

    FezzaFella Karting

    May 8, 2006
    154
    Thanks for the feedback.

    I also thought 34lbs was high but I checked the Goodyear spec on net and also spoke with the tyre company here - both recommended 36lbs cold. Tried that and could not feel anything.

    Will be dropping to 33 rear and 31 in front to see how that works. Am very conscious of tyres heating up alot especially as I am in Singapore where the temp range is 25-32 deg C every day of the year.

    After looking at lots of car shots - it appears I have the same wheels as the Mondial T. Don't know if that makes any difference. But the idea of spacers is good (at least on rear) - would change the steering geometry on front so would need to rework the set up.

    FF
     
  9. Rich Kline

    Rich Kline Rookie
    BANNED

    Dec 13, 2005
    7
    St. Matthews, SC
    Full Name:
    Richard Kline
    I find it very interesting that when the fad is to go to big rims and everyone wants there car dressed out like a HIP HOP video bu-tee car. HA
    Does anyone realize how much engineering goes into suspension, wheels, rims, and balance in designing these cars. The Mondial, 328, 308 no matter... keep it the way it was designed with 15 " rims and the TRX tires. You will rarely get this same performance by screwing around.
    Take for example ...I have a Bentley Turbo R with 15 " rims and Avon tires. The Avon's were terrible and expensive. It took me 3 months to figure that Firestone PV-41 " cop " tires were cheap and the best heavy duty / high speed tires I could get. The Bentley drives perfect.
    So I am in California and was able to drive a Bentley like mine with big rims and low profile tires. WOW did it feel different and unsafe. How can you put a low profile tire on a car that weight almost 6000 lbs. It will rip the tire right off of the rim.
    HEY ..... stop playing automobile designers... it can get you in touble.
     
  10. Tiger Racing

    Tiger Racing Karting

    Jun 23, 2006
    103
    Los Angeles, CA
    Yeah, changing from the original Mondial rims to 328 rims turned his Ferrari into a ricer.

    No. No one here even considered that before now. Thank the gods you came along when you did! What other obscure bits of wisdom can you bless this forum with?

    C.
     
  11. judge4re

    judge4re F1 World Champ

    Apr 26, 2003
    13,477
    Never home
    Full Name:
    Dr. Dumb Ass
    I'm spending about the same amount by getting my classic certification rather than another set of rims for my 8.
     
  12. Rich Kline

    Rich Kline Rookie
    BANNED

    Dec 13, 2005
    7
    St. Matthews, SC
    Full Name:
    Richard Kline
    I can only take so much after reading some of these threads.
    It would be more like it if it were the Triumph or MG. chat.
    I think that you have to start with a Triumph TR-3 and work your way up to a Ferrari.. stopping along the way with a few MG's , a Rover, a couple Alfa's.

    GOOD LUCK to all. and learn the hard way...ha
     

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