MONACO Thoughts: The Real Test For 2007

+1

No idea how anybody could put Hill higher than Alonso. That's just weird. Hill owes his championship to the car. He was very bad in traffic and under pressure. He was fast when out in front. Like somebody else...

 

Plus, he exhibited another characteristic of a world class driver by switching from Renault to McLaren at what seems like the perfect time.

 

Nice Post Ron. I'm not the biggest Massa fan, but so far he's done good for the Scuderia.

BTW, don't forget Bernie also picked Massa to win the WDC at the beginning of the year.

 

That's exactly why I'm still not sold on Alonso's place in history as a world champion.... The car/package had a lot to do with his place in history/time. Just like it was for Hill, and Villeneuve.

Alonso's first title came after significant rule changes made by the FIA, that ultimately handicapped the Bridgestone runners, effectively eliminating MS from the competition.

Then his second championship showed what many would consider as major kinks in his mental armor. Complaining on the Radio in Montreal to force the team to make Fisi move over. The complaints in the press after the penalties in Monza and Hungary. Then there was his constant complaints towards backmarkers and blue flags, and what some would call a Schumacher envy when it comes to on track treatment by his peers.

Now this year, he's pulling every stop he can to handicap Hamilton, from not letting him test in Spain prior to the GP, to not letting him test prior to Monaco. He's under major pressure from his team mate, and has resorted to tactics that I don't ever recall seeing. It all stinks of a fragile ego.

Had Michael's engine not blown in Japan, Alonso's place in history would be closer to Hill's than to Hakkinen's. That's my main point.

If Alonso wins the title this year in the McLaren, he will catepault past Hill, JV and even Hakkinen in my eyes. He will be at the Prost/Lauda level, IMHO.

 

I think he's already past Hill and JV. Interesting to see that you put Prost and Lauda together. I never really juxtaposed them, but I suppose they equate pretty well. They just took different approaches towards championship caliber.

 

Alain Prost constantly complained about everything and used the press as a weapon in his fight against his team mate Senna. Does that make him anymore less worthy? It's just part of the game.

MS would have never allowed a situation with a Hamilton in the 2nd seat (precisely the reason why he isn't driving the Massa car this year). So he never whined in public, but he avoided that situation altogether. Does that make him less worthy?

Hakkinen's point in history? You might as well call that a freak of nature and good luck because if Michael hadn't broken his leg at Stowe in 99 Hakkinen would most certainly be a one timer.

 

+1 Alonso is a very capable driver, and the fact that we have a true talent like Hamilton in the second car (ok guys he hasn't won a race yet, but the season is only in its first third) shows that he isn't afraid of having a great talent in the next car. By the way, prior to Alonso, Fisi blew his teammates into the weeds including Massa at Sauber.

 

Its all about the car now (sadly); it really is an engineering championship first and foremost.

 

Definitely true, and if the current point system had been in place in 99 then Irvine would have been WDC.

 

Paul, Alonso made the most of his package, and prior to Alonso, Fisi had schooled all of his teammates, that included Wurz (prime), Ralf (Jordan), and Massa at Sauber. Alonso is the real deal, and in now way compares to a Damon Hill or JV, more like a Prost, as Pete stated. I would Massa more in Hills position (no offense Ron).

 

Tony-don't forget FA signed for McLaren at the beginning of 2006 and probably had an idea that his teammate would be LH but I don't think he anticipated that LH would be this good. We'll see as there's a lot of season left.

Are you going to Indy?

 

I hear you but my point is where would any of the top 4 (KR, FA, FM, LH) be right now if they were in a Toyota?

As for Fisi I thought he would come good (actually that was his buddy Rocco Siffredi)but he never did.

 

Paul, unfortunately it doesn't look to promising, if I do, I will PM you and some other guys on here.

Although the Ferrari guys don't care for Alonso, I personally think that he would have been the perfect fit for his approach over Kimi.

 

Hakkinen's point in history? You might as well call that a freak of nature and good luck because if Michael hadn't broken his leg at Stowe in 99 Hakkinen would most certainly be a one timer.[/QUOTE]

Of course, on a Ferrari site you are going to say that, but Hakkinen was leading the championship when Michael crashed.
He was no Hill or JV.

 

+1

 

Of course, on a Ferrari site you are going to say that, but Hakkinen was leading the championship when Michael crashed.
He was no Hill or JV.[/QUOTE]


yes, but remember, towards the end of the season, the Ferrari was a better car than the Mclaren. if irv nearly won the title, imagine what MS could have done.

 

yes, but remember, towards the end of the season, the Ferrari was a better car than the Mclaren. if irv nearly won the title, imagine what MS could have done.[/QUOTE]


Watch the race where Michael crashed and you can see the whole Mclaren team go "Yes we win" and then they started screwing everything up for the rest of the season. No one knows what would have happened that season if Michael had not crashed, and remember, Michael did crash.

 

Watch the race where Michael crashed and you can see the whole Mclaren team go "Yes we win" and then they started screwing everything up for the rest of the season. No one knows what would have happened that season if Michael had not crashed, and remember, Michael did crash.[/QUOTE]

+1 I never ever count out McLaren, a great team that has made Ferrari even a better team.

 

No. A super talent in the making would have him on pole and getting race wins. He's in one of the 4 best cars on the grid. Super talent? Alonso would be the super talent on the grid at the moment, or have we forgotten that? He won two extremely close WDCs at an absurdly young age and did it against hugely stiff competition. Hamilton has 5 podiums. He hasn't proven he's better than Alonso. Sure, he might be equal, but he hasn't proven to be better.

 

You have a lot of great points, but remember the driver that Hamilton is doing so well against, without making mistakes. I think both Alonso and Hamilton are exceptional talents. Again to me Alonso is another Prost, and dare I say Hamilton is the continuation of Ayrton Senna.

 

+1

making no mistakes doesn't means he can start comparing himself to FA, MS or Senna

 

Your statement offends me because I take actually great pride (and often a lot of heat) for trying to be as non Ferrari chauvinistic as possible. I don't think Hakkinen would have had any chance on winning the 99 title against MS. I'm a big Irvine fan (and Irvine wasn't even close talent wise to Hakkinen or MS) and he nearly got the title that year. Todt threw in the towel after Silverstone and the team went into a morale low, development of the car floundered with Irvine and Salo not knowing what they were doing and no support from Todt. It was Monetzemolo who put the fire back under the Ferrari team, but at that time they had already squandered about 4 GPs yet still almost won.

Nope, sorry, but MS in the Ferrari was a shoe in for the 99 title.

 

I meant no offense, I apologize for that.
At the time of his crash he was tied in points with Irvine and behind Hakkinen. Mclaren thought they had the title in the bag and started screwing everything up (check the pitstops, etc.) and not developing the car. There is no way to know how things would have gone but you can be sure that every race would have been handled differently by both teams, and by Hakkinen also. There is no reason to suggest that the points leader wouldn't have still won the championship, the stats are in his favor (more wins and more points at the time of the accident).

 

This is a key point IMHO. No one expected anywhere near this from Hamilton, least of all Alonso.

 

Ron Dennis may very well have expected this! Anyone following GP2 would know about Hamilton - won championship for ART (if you didn't tune into him a few years ago too). He did a MS in one of the prior forumlas - he had the championship won will a couple races to go. Numerous former F1 drivers, press and others have expressed their comments about Lewis. From my readings about Lewis I agree with the opinion that "he is too smart, too professional and well schooled to let his early success go to his head" - really liked this one too "he is the antithesis of the "hair-gel" brigade who live for the limelight and for the cameras". Go Lewis.

Carol