Erik, your knowledge of the marque and the F1 in particular is amazing.
Thanks Jas - as you know it has been a labor of love for many years and I continue to try and present the best information available on these great cars and respond as accurately as possible to anyone's questions. I just did another read-through of the 6 Speed Online thread you started about Weiner's F1 when it was for sale. You may recall the user Phoenix kept the questions coming for several pages. It appeared he was just enthusiastic and eager to learn, but perhaps he was trying to play "Stump P25"? >8^) ER
On the subject of 'parts borrowing' on the McLaren or any other car for that matter, people fail to appreciate the mind blowing costs associated with making each and every part special for any given car. Despite the price tag of $1million the McLaren HAD to borrow some parts because it would simply have been too expensive to do it otherwise. As an example both the tail lights and rear view mirrors would have had to be homologated for use on the road. This cost is well in excess of $1 million dollars each to do. So spread $2 million over the production of 106 cars and the additional per car cost would be almost 20K per car just for bespoke units. BTW the homologation costs do not take into account tooling and manufacturing costs that would easily top $500K for both parts to OEM standard. Just some info on the coolest supercar ever made.
All very true statements, and I certainly don't knock McLaren for doing that. My only issue (minor) is that in Jay's road test review of his F1 he states that: "The interesting thing about this car is that every single part was made specifically for the McLaren F1. You know a lot of times when you get fancy Italian cars, you get little Fiat light switches and things just to save money, but everything is purpose built to be as light as possible, and as expensive as possible." You can view the video I am referring to here: http://www.jaylenosgarage.com/at-the-garage/super-cars/mclaren-f1/ >8^) ER
Hi Erik , wow , what can i say , thanks for sharing your knowledge with us , i have been glued to this topic for the last hour or so reading the latest posts and viewing various pics and videos , we are lucky to have you on board !!!!!!!!
Erik I agree that the quote from the video is wrong. Having spoken to Mr. Leno about his McLaren he is a very practical man that, despite his means, values a dollar and is not taken by McLaren pricing. Three examples: 1. He took the car in for service and as part of it they replaced the windshield wiper blade. JL said that he did not drive the car much or in the rain so there was no need to change it. Upon informing him that the replacement blade was $1300 he promptly told them to 'put the old one back on' as there was nothing wrong with it. 2. The original lightweight Kenwood CD player crapped out and a replacement from McLaren was several thousand dollars (I can't remember the amount). Again an $80 replacement from Kenwood was fitted that fit perfectly in the OEM location. 3. The fuel cells were due for replacement due to age. McLaren quoted $30K for the cells. A phone call to Fuel Safe with the dimensions and replacements were made for $1500.
Nice stories there. He told of the 'wiper blade' incident at ArtCenter Car Classic show in 2005 before introducing Gordon Murray. I have a video of him introducing Gordon Murray who came over to give the keynote address at that show. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKLWD-eZ2Gs Before anyone asks, I do not have the videos of Gordon's speech that followed to share. This disappoints me more than you - I promise - and I also apologize for that. Gordon is a little more soft spoken than Jay, and my camera did not pick up most of what was said during his speech. Additionally, while trying to record the portion with Gordon, I had to change memory sticks three times due to length, as this was shot on a Sony Cybershot digital camera, and for some reason the second portion of his speech was corrupted on that memory stick and could not be recovered. I remain hopeful that someday ArtCenter, who did make a professional recording of the entire speech, will release it to the public. If you know someone there who can make this happen, please try to help! >8^) ER
I think you just ruined the McLaren F1 for me... I don't know what to think of this. I've always had a distaste for volkswagons and my last girlfriend was into them. She screwed me over so I hate vws even more. And to find out that my dream car has those disgusting parts on it...I'm in shock. I know they're just cars and car parts but we can all acknowledge the emotions drawn from those simple items. Its why we're here. I'm going to go curl up in the fetal position and mull this over.
Quoting me from post #397: "There are also 5 F1s that were fitted with a high-mirror option with the side mirrors mounted on the A-pillar section of the window frame. Those mirror units came off the BMW Z1 roadster." To expand on that, the confirmed chassis numbers of the high-mirrored F1s are #040 in the UK with 'flemke', #055 in the USA with Ralph Lauren, #071 in Germany with its original owner, and #074 in the USA, also with Ralph Lauren. The last chassis number is unknown at this time, but the car has been spotted a couple of times recently parked in London. Hopefully it is only a matter of time before someone puts their eyes on the chassis plate and can report back with the number or, even better, a photo of it. Here are some compilation images I put together a while back showing each of the chassis in the order that I listed them above. >8^) ER Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
I can't tell you nearly as much about #040 as its owner can who frequently posts on PistonHeads.com. As you may be aware, he's made several changes to the suspension with the help of Porsche Racing specialists, Mathey Racing, in Germany to improve the car's handling. He's also had custom 19" wheels created in the style of the original F1 road car wheel, to allow use of the exact sized Bridgestone tires that were fitted to the Ferrari Enzo. He has described many other things related to his car, and the F1 ownership experience in great detail over there. I'd highly suggest a search of the forums for several threads titled "Flemke is this your McLaren" that will offer you hours of reading enjoyment. Lauren owns three McLarens - the two road cars I just mentioned, and one of the five production F1 LMs, chassis LM3. >8^) ER
Actually, its wearing them in all those EVO Magainze shots in the compilation photo above, but here are some more. The first pair are of it wearing some custom BBS wheels taken during their development efforts. Some people didn't like the gold centers, so I Photoshopped them to plain silver in the third image. The last few photos give a better view of the wheels he had custom made in 19" that look quite similar to the F1s production 17" wheel. He has stated before that even these are not the final versions, but I don't recall seeing any images yet with the car wearing something newer than these. >8^) ER Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Thanks I would never guess those were 19's. Anyway on the street cars I like the stock 17in or the GTR or LM rims, anything else looks weird.
Erik, do you have any links to those discussions on pistonheads? I could only find one labeled (Vol 4)
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=23&t=375461&mid=0&i=0&nmt=Flemke%20-%20Is%20this%20your%20McLaren?%20(Vol%204)%20&mid=0 And the first three: www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=&t=116008 www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=&t=116539 www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=&t=116303
Interesting question Andrew - and the most basic answer is that most cars have changed hands at least one time. It is like Jay Leno says - "We don't really own these cars, we just keep them for the next owners." Some of the earliest F1 owner info can be hard to come by. I didn't really start paying attention until around 2001 myself. The ones I know that should still be with their original owner are: XP3 - which was the 3rd prototype, and was given to Gordon Murray at the end of the F1's production. All the cars that remain in Brunei - #002, #008, LM1, LM4, LM5, 54F1GT, GTR #09R Perhaps chassis #020 with Tony Smith in the UK, though he did have it refitted with the High Downforce Kit and resprayed another color several years back. A red one in Singapore is a likely candidate. It's chassis #021 and it just sits collecting dust. George Harrison's Dark Purple Pearl #025 was passed on to his son Dhani - that kind of counts. Shikuni Okamoto has the white chassis #031 in Japan. He is probably that car's original owner. Motokazu Sayama should still have what is believed to be chassis #043. He was the owner of "Ueno Clinic", the title sponsor for the LeMans winning '95 F1 GTR, and his F1 wears a similar paint scheme to the GTR that won, with black over grey, and a "McLaren GTR" windscreen banner. Chassis #047 is a silver F1 kept mostly in the BMW Museum in Munich. This car was probably built to replace the one that Bernd Pischetstrieder destroyed in a rollover crash in the Black Forest, which we can now determine was almost certainly chassis #010. Ralph Lauren is probably the original owner of both of his road cars - #055 & #074 - or at least the second one. The yellow chassis #060 has been seen in storage in Japan, still with all the protective coverings on the interior, just as it would have left the McLaren factory. No idea on who the owner is, but if its still where it was last seen, then it would probably qualify. Rowan Atkinson still has chassis #061, despite having a widely publicized "prang" in it back in 1999. He uses it well. Chassis #071, the only Papaya Orange road car ever built, is still in the hands of its original owner in Germany. I have his name, but it was shared with me in confidence, and its not anyone you'd recognize. Chassis #075 was built for Mansour Ojjeh's brother, Aziz, and was the final production road car. There was an F1 for sale ad online in March of 2006 that featured a picture of the car, but I'm not sure if it really was sold. If it did, it must have stayed in the family, because in August of 2008 it was spotted in Geneva parked outside a hotel, and a source relayed to me that it was being loaned to Lewis Hamilton at the time. Must be nice for that kid. XP1LM, the F1 LM prototype, has been kept by McLaren and it is believed they have also retained the F1 GT prototype, 56XPGT. However, that car has not been seen on display there in quite some time. Another pair of LM & GT are with Yoshio Tsuzuki, owner of ZENT, in Japan and are kept in the ZAZ Museum. They are LM2 and 58F1GT. He's also owned at least 4 other F1s at different times as well. As far as GTRs go, McLaren have kept the LeMans winner, GTR #01R, all this time and sometimes it's on display at the McLaren Technology Centre. Thomas Bscher told me he still has his two GTRs - #03R and #22R. Lindsay Owen-Jones may still be the original owner of #15R, though its now been painted Orange from it's original Gulf livery, and is road registered in the UK. BMW have kept #17R here in the USA, as well as #18R and #26R in Germany in their collections. That's about 1/4th of the F1s total production. There are a few F1s that still nothing is known about - less than 10, in fact - but thankfully that number continues to shrink as time goes on. Maybe some of the unknows live a similar life to #021 or #060 on that list above - I really don't know? Thankfully I am a patient person, and the F1 saga continues to hold my interest. >8^) ER
Erik, Were you able to get any additional info on that purple F1 down in Mexico that belonged to a dead drug lord or something? Gold wheels. The chassis # is escaping my memory, but I wonder if that person owned it since new and its whereabouts now. Al
McLaren did produce a brochure for the F1, and a separate one for the longtail road car, the F1 GT. There was also a press kit released each year for the F1 GTRs, and a rather special one that was also put together for the F1 LMs. There is other literature on the cars, some official, some not, that floats around in the collector world as well. I can assure you that "... a certain belgian brochure dealer got them all..." is not a true statement. Funny though... The basic McLaren brochure is very nice - probably about 30 pages and measures around 12"x12" with a soft cover. It was put together in advance of the car's unveiling in Monaco in 1992, using photos of the styling mockup known commonly as the "Clinic Model". This event took place about 7 months before the first real McLaren F1 prototype was completed, and from that point it was another full year before production began. In that time, some of the design details of both the exterior and interior of the car evolved, partially due to regulations, and in some ways due to McLaren's development testing. This means that the car in the brochure doesn't look exactly like the car people were able to purchase. For quite a while, I had no interest in owning one of the brochures because of this. Also, their prices when they would appear on Ebay often exceeded $500 and it was tough to justify spending that kind of money on a brochure. If you think that is bad though, I have seen the F1 GT brochure, which is far smaller, sell for 3x that amount and the LM Press Kit go for almost double that. If you are slow at math, that means about $3,000 for the LM Press Kit - WOW! I ended up getting a regular brochure for about half the going rate, and picked up a GT brochure for 1/3rd the peak price mentioned above (Yay²). In the end I'm happy to have both in my collection. The GT brochure seems quite a bit more rare than the regular road car one just based on the frequency of their appearance in places like Ebay. It has some of the best pictures around of the longtail road cars, which are hardly ever seen. There's also a hard cover version of the regular F1 brochure out there, but those usually sell for over $1,000 - I can't tell you why? If you ever see an F1 brochure for sale, don't believe that it was "one of 100 that were handed out at the Sporting Club in Monaco in 1992" either, as is commonly listed in their auction descriptions. That is simply not the case - I'd imagine there are a few thousand out there. McLaren even used to mail them out for free to interested people who contacted them for details on the cars when production was still going. A visit to the factory at that time would also net a brochure for a lot of people. Wish mine had come for free like that. Here's some example photos of the "F1 Launch Brochure" as it is commonly called. >8^) ER Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Hey Al- Nothing new has surfaced on that one, and it would certainly be big news if something did. The car is reported to be "Brown" not purple though - in fact some who saw it at the factory said it was the familiar color of a UPS truck. I thought about including it on that 'original owners' list, but if you believe the story of drug lords and murders that Jose uncovered when the car first appeared, then its original owner is no longer with us. Not sure if I should be sad about that or not? >8^) ER
