Max Mosley has died | Page 3 | FerrariChat

Max Mosley has died

Discussion in 'F1' started by william, May 24, 2021.

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  1. SimCity3

    SimCity3 F1 Rookie


    IIRC it wasn't quite as simple as that.
    Michelin had extra lightweight tyres that couldn't handle the heat. Michelins were over the edge of the regs and were classified as not fit for purpose.
    State Law considered it illegal to race with said tyre.

    Michelin's trick tyres came around to bite them.
     
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  2. spirot

    spirot F1 World Champ

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    I'm sure Mosley was a nice person. I feel bad for his family and friends. However, I don't remember his rein as a very positive one for F-1. I believe the combination of Ecclestone and Mosley turned F-1 into the perpetual toxic place its is today. always chasing money, even more ruthless and frankly not caring about fans. That is what it seemed to me, Mosley allowed Eccelstone to take F-1 and make it a monopoly that depressed all other racing, and sucked the money out of racing in general, so that by the mid 1990's it was F-1 and that was about it. only in the USA they could not impose their stranglehold. Ecclestone made lots of people uber-wealthy, but he also ruined F-1. in the end, and it finally eats him as well.
     
  3. SimCity3

    SimCity3 F1 Rookie


    I agree that Bernie made many people wealthy - but I'm yet to hear one of them complain about said wealth.

    F1 would not have suffered 7 years of Mercedes dominance with the silly regs / development freezes etc that we've had under Todt.
    Max would've whipped them into shape.

    Driven by resentment at being sacked by Ferrari TWICE, the first occasion Michael Schumacher stepped in and put his own head on the chopping block to save Todt. Such loyalty is RARE in F1.

    Todt has been complicit to Wolff's agenda. It's called revenge.
     
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  4. spirot

    spirot F1 World Champ

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    I think Mosley was Ecclestones puppet. Bernie give Max money to rehab his family name... and he was happy. Max gave Bernie the keys to the kingdom and free reign... even when people like Dennis and Tyrrell and Montezemolo complained... they were not strong enough to beat Bernie and his money printing press... remember the Gribousky affair in Germany... $100M for an introduction fee???? really? all that was under Max's nose. Be in no illusion that Max Mosley was a cunning lawyer, and came from considerable wealth and privilege. Money was not his goal, but relevance, clearing of the Mosely name, and power..... He ditched March in a heart beat and all those people with zero thought to their future.
     
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  5. 375+

    375+ F1 World Champ
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    :eek:

    Absolutely.
     
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  6. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Agreed on all.

    As for cleaning the tainted family name? Well, he might have done the opposite in that regard.
     
  7. SimCity3

    SimCity3 F1 Rookie


    The sport is better when it has a dictator.

    Todt has been weak and Wolff has gotten everything he wanted.
     
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  8. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    100%
     
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  9. rdefabri

    rdefabri Three Time F1 World Champ

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    Wow - just saw this. Only 81? RIP!
     
  10. spirot

    spirot F1 World Champ

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    It was great from 1950 to 1976 as well. no dictator then either. I get what you are saying but also the amounts of money are so huge today I don't think a single guy like Ecclestone can run it effectively - even he had to get out ... or face the downward trend that we are currently having. Ecclestone and Mosley built a Frankenstein monster... and it got them both. Bernie let the money cloud his judgment... and what we have today is the result. a lack of teams, stupid engines, no sounds, no high tech, boring tracks, races in countries that most folks would not want to go to .. unless they have to... doing deals with dictators ... and humanitarian criminals... all for $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. For Drivers, the most common denominator is they all came from money, or have a billionaire sponsor in the back pocket. I'm not saying that 1950 was ideal either but the pendulum in the middle is best... and it has swung way to far... to $$$$$
     
  11. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    #61 tifosi12, May 26, 2021
    Last edited: May 26, 2021
    What? Where on Earth do you have more high tech than in F1?

    I find that statement downright offensive.

    So let's see what those countries are:
    Bahrain
    *Italy
    *Portugal
    *Spain
    *Monaco
    Azerbaijan
    *France
    *Austria
    *Great Britain
    *Hungary
    *Belgium
    *Netherlands
    *Russia
    Singapore
    Japan
    *USA
    *Mexico
    *Brazil
    Australia
    *Canada
    Saudi Arabia
    Abu Dhabi
    *China

    I marked the countries I've been to with an asterisk. I went there because I wanted to. Abu Dhabi, Japan, Singapore, Azerbaijan and Australia are on my bucket list.

    Of the list I'm only not hot about going to Bahrain and Saudi Arabia. Big whoop, 2 of like 24 venues.
     
  12. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    F1 in the 50s and early 60s was run casually like a club. It was exciting but dangerous, and nobody was making money then.
    Ecclestone and Mosley made it a business, then provided teams with money to improve the show.
    F1 got his first constitution, it became a legitimate enterprise and safety became a concern- no more heroics!
    From being simply Barnum circus under a tent F1 became Hollywood.on the wide screen, and with TV the audience grew tremendously.
    Then the automanufacturers got sucked in and more money poured in, enough to make the engineers dizzy.
    It used to be accessible at a stretch, but now you need telephone numbers figures to participate, and 15 engineers to start an engine !
    How long F1 will last, no one knows. The drastic budget cap if it doesn't kill F1 will make it stronger, perhaps?
    Did I say it was a sport?
     
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  13. spirot

    spirot F1 World Champ

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    No offense intended, but I don't know a lo to of people who go to Sochi for vacation. Moskow - St. Petersberg yes... Sochi no - unless you are Russian. and then there is the questionable Putin aspect.

    Azerbaijan? why there vs. Corfu, Bandol, Ibiza? Saudi? really they have such a racing heritage? who goes there on vacation? have you been? I have ... don't want to go back. Vietnam? Abu Dhabi? Bahrain? all those countries have no real racing history or pedigree... all they have is $$$$ and can afford the astronomical fees.

    China I get - huge population and huge car culture. Japan etc.. I get. but F-1 is predominately a European sport, so to sacrifice Germany, Holland, San Marino etc.. for these other exotic places? i don't get it other than $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

    its clearly a business that is chasing money vs. anything else. that is the problem.

    As for technology - look no further than Le Mans Hyper car - LMP 1 category. far more tech than Fi.
     
  14. spirot

    spirot F1 World Champ

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    It's interesting that you noted it became Hollywood... everywhere else but in the USA. I bring that up because in the USA F-1 was big in the 70's and 80's but F1 could not compete and so they just left. Ecclestone and Mosley shunned the USA and TV when they could not extort money ... that is my perspective. I was working on a deal with FOM / FOCA / FISA in 91-92. The terms of the deal were pretty draconian unless they wanted you. basically, it was this is our show, and you should be thankful we even want to show up. we come first - and if you don't have anything left over that is not our problem. which is why Tobacco was such a huge impact in F-1. That allowed F-1 to grow without having to deliver value. once that was gone, and large manufacturers were out... F1 was in trouble. I will say that Bernie saw the error and put his own money in.. .but he also looked for an out... CVC ...

    F-1 is so far from a sport I don't think its possible go back. its not quite show business but that is about as close as you can get. it more like WWE for Kratocrats.
     
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  15. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I always assumed that America paid lip service to F1 because a) it was only a once-a-year show, b) they already had CART or Champcar.
     
  16. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    With the professionalism came the money of big business. Part of the deal. If you want racing heritage etc, well there is club and historic racing. But F1 has outgrown that.

    If the Germans would get their stuff together, there could be a GP. They have two FIA certified tracks. Their own fault not to cough up the $. Holland is back in the calendar. San Marino was last and this year.

    I never had any interest in Azerbaijan until I saw the epic track and the beautiful city. Showcasing a place in the F1 world wide TV window clearly works. Now I'd like to visit Baku, looks stunning and modern. Sochi looks somewhat interesting, being an Olympic city and rich with beaches. Granted a Russian GP in Petersburg or Moscow would be better.

    Vietnam I thought was a great idea. On my list of places I want to go to, lots of history and culture there and in the whole triangle region. A GP on top of that would sweeten the deal.

    You say Abu Dhabi and Bahrain have no racing history or pedigree. You know they are famous for their camel races around racetracks akin to our horse races.

    Overall I don't have a problem with the places F1 goes to. I wish they would add a race in the African continent and also bring back the Argentinian GP.
     
  17. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    I think Liberty rightfully discovered the potential value of F1 in the US. The market and the $ is enormous if they manage to make it more popular. Hence the push for a 2nd and 3rd race in the US. I hope they can tap into that potential and reap the benefits.
     
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  18. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    The reason advanced for Germany, is that no promoter can break even organising a GP under the FOM conditions.
    The public is apparently refusing to pay the ticket prices afforded in some other European countries.
    I asked a German friend why; he suggested that perhaps his compatriots are more thrifty than thought!

    As for the Emirates (Abu Dhabi and Dubai) they are slowly growing their own racing history.
    They have 2 very active circuits hosting international competitions (sportscars, Dubai 24h) on top of their local series .
    They should be ideal locations for GP fans, with large airports, top hotels and good entertainments nearby.
     
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  19. furoni

    furoni F1 World Champ

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    WE all know he did it, lololo
     
  20. furoni

    furoni F1 World Champ

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    Ans still he was crap....
     
  21. thepinkumbrella

    thepinkumbrella F1 Veteran

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  22. 375+

    375+ F1 World Champ
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  23. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    Quite the way to go...

    Didn't agree with many things he did but his idea what F1's formula should be was quite good, even if he arrived by somethings on accident (the grooved tyres to slow down the cars actually where quite good for racing, for example).
     
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  24. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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  25. 375+

    375+ F1 World Champ
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    A sad way to go.
     

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