MASSA DOESN'T SUCK | Page 36 | FerrariChat

MASSA DOESN'T SUCK

Discussion in 'F1' started by DEAF1, Oct 14, 2012.

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  1. GordonC

    GordonC F1 Rookie
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    Current championship standings as of today:

    Bottas 67 points
    Massa 62 points

    Looks pretty definitive that it's Massa getting his ass handed to him so far this season by Bottas... again.

    Can you explain how 62 points is better than 67 points? :D

    The Massa haters don't bother any more, because Massa is irrelevant.
     
  2. DEAF1

    DEAF1 Karting

    Nov 2, 2011
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    He will be ahead after tomorrow.. He is relevant are you ??
     
  3. DEAF1

    DEAF1 Karting

    Nov 2, 2011
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    Blog master keyboard warrior....lol...
     
  4. GordonC

    GordonC F1 Rookie
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    Obviously you hope he is ahead... and I hope Bottas remains ahead - doesn't change the FACT that Bottas is ahead as of today, contrary to your assertion. The WC and drivers are ranked on points scored - again, as of today, you're simply, factually, wrong about Bottas versus Massa. Cheer for Massa all you want, doesn't change the fact that he is behind his teammate in the rankings.

    Pretty silly (to be polite) question to ask about my relevance - obviously I have no more relevance to F1 than do you or any other fan. That has nothing to do with the drivers or the teams... unless you consider the fans' opinions to be relevant, then Kimi is the most relevant driver by the fan survey... and Massa is way down the list.

    This appears to be your normal argument style, though - if you don't like someone else's opinion, you attack that other person's character? I won't engage in that - you're perfectly entitled to your opinion, as am I and everyone else here.
     
  5. toil

    toil F1 Rookie
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    Bottas is only marginally ahead. Hulk would be a better choice for Ferrari.
     
  6. DEAF1

    DEAF1 Karting

    Nov 2, 2011
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    Hulk does deserve a shot at a top tier drive....l
     
  7. robertgarven

    robertgarven F1 Veteran
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    Massa doesn't suck when he's given a good car and no team orders and he has recovered from his head trauma!
     
  8. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Oct 3, 2002
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    History repeats itself.
    ROFLMAO


    Felipe, Valeri is faster than you
     
  9. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ

    No actually "Felipe dont worry about Valteri" - He had 56 laps and never passed you LOL!!

    Valteri does not have the cold instinct. He could have passed and didnt. No one is to blame but the Williams driver who finished behind Massa. End of.
     
  10. GordonC

    GordonC F1 Rookie
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    You don't think the team ordering Bottas to stay behind Massa ("No racing your teammate") on lap 9 might have been a factor in Bottas staying behind Massa? At that point, Bottas was clearly quicker and being held up.

    Were you on a beer break when the team order to Bottas was broadcast? How can you state "no one is to blame" for Bottas not passing, when he was ordered by the team to stay behind? Or do you figure the drivers should just ignore the team instructions?

    A few laps later, when Williams OK'd them to race, the Mercedes were already closing. This race was more like an opportunity lost - instead of releasing Bottas who would have pulled away more than Massa, they allowed Massa to hold him up and the Mercedes closed the gap and got ahead at the pit stops from lap 19. It was very tough to pass, if Williams had put Bottas ahead to pull away as he was capable of doing and Massa wasn't (obviously, since he didn't), and left Massa to hold back the Mercedes, Williams could have opened the gap enough before the pit stops to hold the lead. Instead, Massa backed up Bottas into the Mercedes, leaving Mercedes the opportunity to get ahead at the pit stops.

    Nonetheless, Massa didn't spin in the wet, and finished ahead of Bottas - in this race. The SEASON results have Bottas move up to 4th in the standings with 77 points, while Massa is back in 6th with 74 points.

    Yeah, Massa is really handing it to Bottas - dominating him by being two positions behind, 3 points back of him. He's really crushing him this season, in the same way Massa crushed Bottas last year by finishing behind him then! :p
     
  11. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ

    Wow 3 points lol! Dominating? Not passing and showing aggression. Bottas in a weaker car compared to last year is hardly pushing Massa aside. So 56 laps and no pass. The SLOWER Williams finished behind the FASTER Williams. On the hard tire Bottas was stuck on the nose of Nico's Mercedes and out of DRS range by over 2 sec behind Massa. Massa was faster most of the weekend and the race. Give credit where its appropriate. Had Bottas had the nerve to simply pass I would respect him more. He didnt and at Ferrari, Vettel will be in no fear. He lacks the cold instinct required. Vettel does not.
     
  12. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jun 3, 2006
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    It's not because a driver stays behind another car that he is slower.
    Catching up and overtaking are two different things.

    Bottas was clearly faster, but hampered by Massa.
    The Finn was urged not to attack his team mate at first (or words to that effect), later, it was too late.
    For Williams, it doesn't make any difference who's ahead among its drivers, as long as the team collects points; hence the word of caution.
    For Pat Symmonds to come and say on air that Williams lets its drivers race is really desingenuous.
    Bottas was told to stay put, and that was the turning point of the race, IMHO.
     
  13. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ

    Mercedes were never ever going to lose this race. The first stop for LH showed that clearly. Williams had pace but not enough to stop a smart Mercedes driven by LH. For Bottas he would have been passed later on the hard tire. He had no pace after stop 1.

    No matter his future at Ferrari will not go well if he does not raise his aggression. His competition vs Massa to me does not yield a Ferrari drive. They could just as easily take Massa back if Bottas is what they want. Valtteri needs to stamp his name on the Team Williams or forget a top drive.

    To challenge Vettel he must change and grow. I dont see it after 56 laps today. Hulk is no better. At this point Ferrari should just keep Kimi. Ricci might be an option or Kyvat. Too early for Max or Sainz. Vettel needs to be pushed and I see none of the press' named drivers doing that. Surely not Bottas in my opinion.
     
  14. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
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    MB had such an advantage on the hards that whether Bottas passed Massa or not Williams wasn't going to win.
     
  15. GordonC

    GordonC F1 Rookie
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    The claim made by DEAF1 yesterday was that Massa is kicking Bottas ass - yet Bottas is ahead in the Championship ranks, again. Where exactly is this ass-kicking taking place, if Massa is behind? Sure, credit where it's due, Massa qualified better and got a fantastic start... and then after lap 7 became a mobile chicane and potentially cost Williams a podium or even a win, by not letting the faster Williams driver go by. Even then, over the course of the season he will on occasion finish ahead of Bottas - I'll admit he drove well today, and that he doesn't always suck. Just more often than not, and thus despite a good drive today, he's still behind his teammate in the season rankings so far.
     
  16. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Phil's little son was asked where he thought that his dad would finish this race.

    He said "second".
    Talk about getting no respect.
     
  17. 375+

    375+ F1 World Champ
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    Massa continues to amaze me, I guess I've always underestimated him but I thought that he lacked the mental toughness to succeed(especially after the accident). It was good to see him back on his game. In the post race interview he seemed to exude self-confidence, I hope that it continues.
     
  18. 375+

    375+ F1 World Champ
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  19. maulaf

    maulaf Formula 3

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    +1
     
  20. Flavio_C

    Flavio_C Formula 3
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    If you are really faster than the car ahead of you, you simply PASS IT. You don't need to ask permission. That's what Ham & Nico do with each other and that was not what Bottas was able to do. Same story with Vettel in the last race.

    So Massa>Vettel in Austria and Massa>Bottas in England, end of story!
     
  21. TifosiUSA

    TifosiUSA F1 Veteran

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    Felipe is driving great right now. Haters take a seat.
     
  22. TifosiUSA

    TifosiUSA F1 Veteran

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    Lol did you even watch this race? Williams never had a prayer for a win thanks to the rain. Even if it had stayed dry, Massa not letting Bottas by isn't what would have cost them the win, what cost them the win was allowing Hamilton to pit before either of their cars. As soon as Kimi started setting purple sector times after his stop they should have immediately pitted Massa or Bottas. The Ferrari (particularly Kimi) is crap on hards and he cant put heat in them so the fact that he was going so fast should have told Williams that they needed to pit their drivers ASAP.

    They lost the race the second they allowed LH to pit first but ultra conservative strategy calls have become a hallmark of Williams (a team that has now become about scoring decent low-risk WCC points rather than take risks for wins)

    Anyway, Massa is doing great. Thats two races in a row where he has comprehensively outdriven Bottas.
     
  23. toil

    toil F1 Rookie
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    well conceivably if they had let bottas through they may have been ahead of LH after his first pit. All they needed was Bottas to get a gap of a few seconds from Massa (not unachievable at all).

    Not that any of this matters because it rained and Williams had no chance.
     
  24. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    IMO Massa, and the Williams team through not being able to think tactically, cost Williams at least a podium.

    Anybody with a brain could see that letting Bottas through was the right thing to do but they left the call too late and Massa would not let him through.

    Fools
    Pete
     
  25. furoni

    furoni F1 World Champ

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    Williams did the right thing, if instead of fighting they concentrate on driving fast, both of them will have a better chance...but valteri did look like he was a bit faster during the first laps....
     

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