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Maserati Khamsin

Discussion in 'Maserati' started by Maeter, Feb 24, 2008.

  1. series1

    series1 Karting

    Apr 10, 2007
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    Leamington Spa
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    Mark Butler
    Hi out there. I was chatting to the shot blasters at the weekend about getting my car on a rotisserie to do the work.

    At the rear it seems pretty straight forward to mount the car on the bumper mounts. The front seems a little more challenging though. I’m worried about the front end structure not being up to the job, and thinking it might be better to pick up off the steering rack mounts.

    Does anyone have any images of how they mounted their car on a rotisserie?

    Thanks
     
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  3. Nembo1777

    Nembo1777 F1 Veteran
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    Will contact now someone who did and ask for MO and pics
     
  4. Nembo1777

    Nembo1777 F1 Veteran
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    Actually I did just write him but you can see plenty of pics of the K on rotisserie in his Instagram:

    Mialetsebastien

    Sorry just have my phone right now and cannot provide clickable link.

    However it may be a different kind of rotisserie than what you have at hand and therefore the attachment points may differ.
     
  5. 71Satisfaction

    71Satisfaction Formula Junior
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    Jul 15, 2012
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    TECHNICAL QUESTION:

    Has anyone had to re-adhere their rear-view mirror to the glass windshield - if so what adhesive did you use?
    - The most prevalent adhesive kits available are for metal-to-glass applications.
    - The pad on the Khamsin mirror appears to be plastic with a (seemingly former double-stick) rubber pad against the glass.
    - I'll give a call to 3M on the morning and ask if their metal-to-glass is compatible with plastic, but figured I'd ask the Hive Mind here for recommendations.

    Cheers,
    - Art
     
  6. awatkins

    awatkins Formula Junior

    Apr 10, 2005
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    The typical auto-store metal-glass mirror glues are, I believe, cyano-acrylate glues. CA glues come in all kinds of formulations for different materials, including some like Loctite 495 whose bond with rubber or plastic is much stronger than the base material, so any joint fracture will ruin one or both pieces. However, the ones you get at your auto parts store or Amazon are supposed to break without damaging either the glass or the metal. I have had them get knocked of the windshield and take out a chunk of glass. Via many different formulations, some stick to plastic very weakly, and other designed for that job such as 495, with great strength. If you were to use one with "great strength" it would almost certainly break the plastic when strained. Thus, in my opinion there is significant risk in using any of the normal metal-glass rear view mirror formulations, and you have no safe way to test it. Even more likely, it will get knocked off my a slight pressure.

    I would suggest instead that you ask 3M what high-tack double-sided tape is closest to what was likely used by Maserati. 3M makes many different such tapes with wide variation in bond strength and intended for many different materials. With one or more of those in hand, I would find a similar piece of plastic (perhaps ABS sheet which you should be able to find at a hobby shop or industrial supply) with similar area and try gluing it to a piece of glass, and after letting the bond settle under pressure for 24 hrs or so, see how easy the joint is to separate and what effect it has on the plastic.
     
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  8. italiancars

    italiancars F1 Rookie

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  9. boralogist

    boralogist Formula Junior

    Jun 21, 2005
    800
    Yes. Good point.
    The glue issue is applicable to the Bora not the K.

    PS---NEVER use cyano-acrylate glues on a windshield. WILL crack it.
    CAN use 2 part Pattex Power Epoxies for a PERMANENT fix!
     
  10. 71Satisfaction

    71Satisfaction Formula Junior
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    Grazie tutti,
    Ich habe Vormorgendankbarzornverzweiflung! German is such a useful language: Thank you for trying to be helpful.

    - Isn't denying the existence of a problem a waste of our time? The rearview mirrors on both 1196 and 1180 are adhered directly to the glass windshield. End of story. Perhaps I'm driving a Bora that just *looks* a whole lot like a Khamsin? Perhaps Bob Grossman or US regulations required they be adhered?

    - This example is a good reminder that the parts catalog isn't always accurate. Scroll down for more reasons why we should all know that Maserati is less than perfectly consistent.

    - As awatkins and boralogist infer - the adhesives set quickly, and also shrink slightly to form a bond that can break free as designed. This shrinkage is a risk-factor because it can crack your car's valuable tempered OEM glass. It is possible aftermarket adhesives are cyanoacrylate. I don't claim any expertise. A quick search reveals that many are two-part compounds, and cyanoacrylate isn't recommended.

    - I called 3M as planned. They suggested a 3M two-sided 'VHB' adhesive sheet product. I sourced an apparent match from the Porsche parts vendor Pelican Products for $16.50 (Pelican can also sell you some useful Bosch accessories for your Maserati like a new "green wire" distributor sensor if you fail to get a spark). I'll confirm whether the 3M VHB pad is a direct match after I get it in hand.

    https://www.pelicanparts.com/More_Info/90173113320.htm?pn=901-731-133-20-OEM&gclid=CjwKCAjwqIiFBhAHEiwANg9szkndn5rwS9-e5oHfdZ3Gsxu7rzVQwyY00h8dTT-nEq5z-s-EwR1qJBoCcTIQAvD_BwE

    I apologize for the attitude, I've had an issue with 'experts' denying my problems exist lately, and it's just where I am today.
    Thank you,
    - Art


    *1. We should also all know how inconsistent the parts supply was for Maserati's assembly line.
    2. Then you add in the various modifications Maserati may have decided to make along the way.
    If we don't know ALL this by now:
    Watch yourself when using words like "never" and "impossible".. those words have for centuries made fools of experts.


    Note the mirror mounts on the glass..
    Khamsin 1180:
    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    Khamsin 1196 mount pad location:
    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    1196 mount and mirror pad..
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  11. boralogist

    boralogist Formula Junior

    Jun 21, 2005
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    No Expert Here;)

    BUT---You are so right --- you seem to have hybrid Ks--- what you picture are BORA mirrors/mounts!
    Not only the K catalog---but every K I have ever seen including my K.1218 have screw-on RW mirrors!

    Finally:
    NEVER use cyano-acrylate glues on a windshield. WILL crack it.:)
     
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  13. awatkins

    awatkins Formula Junior

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    #9685 awatkins, May 17, 2021
    Last edited: May 17, 2021
    AM120US1228 begs to differ as well. A quick look through the US version parts book did not reveal a mirror, but then I might have missed it. Or this could be another proof one shouldn't blindly trust parts books.

    Also the wise counsel to avoid "never" and "always" is equally applicable to cyanoacrylate glues. A friend broke off a mirror so-attached to one of my cars just a little while ago and it came away clean as has happened in 4 out of 5 cases in my experience. So how about "might"?

    71Satisfaction: did 3M happen to give you a part number? I like to collect these things for my adhesives drawer when there is a well-support application for them.

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
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  14. boralogist

    boralogist Formula Junior

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    Fascinating! Love FAUDA;)
     
  15. boralogist

    boralogist Formula Junior

    Jun 21, 2005
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    OK.
    Not talking about about removal/falling off etc...
    Affix your mirror to your windshield w/a cyano-acrylate glue and wait for a very hot day when you are parked for lunch on the shore!
    You are now in the market for a new windshield! Enjoy!

    Thus:
    NEVER use cyano-acrylate glues on a windshield. WILL crack it.

    No further comments on this topic;)
     
  16. Mexico074

    Mexico074 Formula 3

    Aug 14, 2008
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    I don't want to get in the middle of this discussion, but the mirror in AM120US1120 (a 1975 car) is not attached to the glass...

    Mike
     
  17. AMLC

    AMLC Formula Junior

    Apr 4, 2009
    586
    #090: the mirror is not attached to the glass.
     
  18. series1

    series1 Karting

    Apr 10, 2007
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    Leamington Spa
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    Mark Butler
    Mine is on the glass
     
  19. AMLC

    AMLC Formula Junior

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  20. Nembo1777

    Nembo1777 F1 Veteran
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    Tomorrow right hand drive 5 speed AM120-341 is up for auction in the Bonhams Bond street London sale, it is as good as they get, fully restored in time for K40 in 2012, not judged as it is owned by my co organiser and publisher, it will be interesting to see what it fetches. I wrote the catalog biography for Bonhams but am not otherwise involved in the sale in any way.

    https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/27194/lot/11/

    Here it is at salon Privé 2014:
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  21. Nembo1777

    Nembo1777 F1 Veteran
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    Hello Mark,

    Sebastien Mialet the French bodywork specialist sent me these photos, I hope they help. The attachment points may be different as this is perhaps not the type of rotisserie you have access to. Again see his IG account Mialetsebastien. He states he can sell a complete kit...but with Brexit getting anything across the channel is a chore with paperwork hassles.

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  22. staatsof

    staatsof Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Curious about the steering wheel?
     
  23. 71Satisfaction

    71Satisfaction Formula Junior
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    #9695 71Satisfaction, May 19, 2021
    Last edited: May 19, 2021
    Sure - look up 3M VHB, and it should come up.

    The results I got didn't offer VHB as sheet goods*, but rather an assortment of different sized VHB pads for various marques.

    The 1979 Porsche 911 pad looks the most like the one for the Kh, so I ordered it on the assumption that the mirror was sourced from a common mfr.

    *But wait - I now see it on Amazon in rolls, up to 2" wide.. maybe wider.

    Marc was kind enough to facilitate my other issue, so I'm all good. Thank you Marc.
    Cheers,
    - Art
     
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  24. red27

    red27 Formula Junior

    Sep 7, 2010
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  25. boralogist

    boralogist Formula Junior

    Jun 21, 2005
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    #9697 boralogist, May 19, 2021
    Last edited: May 19, 2021
    Color inside & out clearly an issue---at least for me!
    US/FR steering wheel raises questions +
    RHD market v. limited.
    IMO---Most importantly that 10 year old restoration (however good it might have been once) did NOT age well.
    Finally all results today were significantly depressed.

    Under the circumstances not bad for a tired brown car!
     
  26. staatsof

    staatsof Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    #9698 staatsof, May 19, 2021
    Last edited: May 19, 2021
    I'll have to take another look. At quick glance it didn't look that bad. I've never thought of the Bora or Khamsin interiors as particularly high quality.

    The Khamsin's reminds me a lot of the Espada's, another not so high quality interior. Now that I've gone through the Espada's I got to see how it's all put together. Same designer and a great one.

    Now I know the Espada had a lot of assembly done by Bertone and you can see some of the same things in each. Also the Bora and the Espada have the same passenger side foot pedal brace. Looks like the same little cobble it up shop made them. These certainly aren't RR, Bentley, AM or even Jaguar quality interiors.

    Did Bertone do a lot of the body & interior assembly for the Khamsin?

    It doesn't look so bad to me? Some of the padding behind the leather on the dash is now lumpy. Same color as my Espada inside. Not a big fan of the brown though.
     
  27. Nembo1777

    Nembo1777 F1 Veteran
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    #9699 Nembo1777, May 19, 2021
    Last edited: May 19, 2021
    Regarding 341:

    -The UK market is very small and there simply weren't enough ready buyers at hand TODAY. That is the double edge predicament with auctions; it forces procrastinators and others into line to bid on the day. But some who want a car may not be able to attend and may not be willing to bid without seeing it in person for example. Let's remember this was one of the first real live auctions after a lot of virtual ones. All it would have taken for the price to be much higher is a small handful of motivated people so it is all too tenuous to speak of a market tendency. Anyone experienced with auctions knows it takes just two stubborn wallets to drive a price up.

    -Someone got a steal today that is for sure, good for them.

    -The color did cause a prospect to not but the car some months ago and yes it is not as easy to sell as silver, god awful resale red or dark blue. It is its original color, Luci del Bosco (half light of the underbrush is a decent translation) and I like it, as most here will know, for a few years now the trend has been to go back to original unusual 70's colors.

    -Not sure people have been looking at the photos, this car is excellent I saw it in person obviously at Khamsin Quaranta and several times years later at my publisher's warehouse, I don't see what is meant by not aged well. The steering wheel as far as I know was there when the seller bought the car.

    Again I was not involved with its sale in this auction.

    To give some historical perspective the seller had bought it at a small London auction in February 2007 this is when values were still very low and this car had not been prepped at all, he had paid 9000 Pounds for it yes nine thousand LOL. He then spent far more than ten times that much in one of the most extensive restorations ever done on a K. My 2013 book uses it as subject car for restoration comments by Andy Heywood of McGrath's pages 374 to 379.

    -This morning 096 left Vienna after twenty years for a new life in Amsterdam, I arranged that sale, it was a pleasure dealing with two true Maserati Gentlemen. A rare smooth nose with less than 30000kms and wonderfully conserved patinated interior. When I get enquiries they are of course 90% of the time for left hand drive cars, a simple matter of production numbers of the two version and market size.
     

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  28. boralogist

    boralogist Formula Junior

    Jun 21, 2005
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    Pretty K:).
     
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