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Maserati Khamsin

Discussion in 'Maserati' started by Maeter, Feb 24, 2008.

  1. Nembo1777

    Nembo1777 F1 Veteran
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    #8051 Nembo1777, Apr 2, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2020
    Ivan, Joe, I am convinced that later K's had AM120 engine denominations. I could not find a photo, spent far too much time looking for one in my files. I only take bellhousing photos for PPI's as in my experience very few K's have had a replacement engine installed but finally after a lot of digging I found this: the car of Peter S which he sold locally in the Zurich area about a year ago. Engine AM120-338.

    In other news some of you may have mentioned a couple of strange posts today by people with very few posts today (one congratulating thread opener Pascal on his project 12 years after) and someone talking about his Ferrari 400...that is because I suggested to Rob Lay Fchat administrator that it was worth mentioning in his newsletter that this thread breached 1 million views so it has drawn some curiosity.

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  2. thecarnut

    thecarnut Formula 3

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    Looks like you might be correct ... perhaps K's built in 1979 and later had AM120 engines. That would be a violation of the "dry sump engines shall have a 115 designation" rule, but we all know Italians are not big into following rules :)

    BTW: I checked the engine on the 1980 Kyalami and it is a AM107, which follows the "rule" for a wet sump engine. Is it possible the data sheet is incorrect and that the actual number stamped on the engine of K #338 is AM115 ?

    Ivan
     
  3. Nembo1777

    Nembo1777 F1 Veteran
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    Haha how did I know you would ask that?:)
    You are an engineer, I am a historian, you trust bits of metal, I trust bits of paper:D
    All we need is a pair of scissors to play the game:p
     
  4. thecarnut

    thecarnut Formula 3

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    Metal beats paper every time :) Especially a piece of paper that was not created "nel tempo".

    Ivan
     
  5. NeuroBeaker

    NeuroBeaker Moderator
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    I believe it was intended for another thread he was posting in earlier and it accidentally was posted here. Post moved. Carry on gentlemen. :)

    All the best,
    Andrew.
     
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  6. Nembo1777

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    Thank you Andrew:)
     
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  7. Nembo1777

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    No, no holy paper wraps around the evil metal every time, check the rules, they are written on ...paper:D
     
  8. emsiegel13

    emsiegel13 Formula Junior
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    I must say that the asymmetrical final vent layout made the Khamsin a much more interesting car. I'm surprised that Maserati decided to go that way because, when you think about it, it's a very radical design decision. No other car design of that era was willing to go down that road. For a conservation company like Maserati it was bold. I know that Citroen had some of it people in senior management positions by that time but I wonder as to whom had the final say about the Khamsin design, the French Citroen management or the Italian part of Maserati?
     
  9. Nembo1777

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    #8059 Nembo1777, Apr 3, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2020
    Pierre Bercot President of Citroen (and its virtual Pope) was very respectful of Maserati and placed only four people there. Anyone else was specifically forbidden to interfere. This was to ensure that the integrity of Maserati, the company its people, would not be diluted, invaded by the infinitely larger Citroen company. This was very important to him: paws off.

    The four people were Guy Malleret, administrator (de facto CEO of Maserati delegated by and answering only to Bercot), Dominique Drieux, commercial and personnel director (though his role had many aspects), Thierry Lecesne in charge of purchasing who left before the seven year spell and was replaced by Jean Louis Lafitte and a fourth Frenchman -even though he has a name of Italian origin-, Louis Nicoletti in charge of the workshops and production.

    That was it.

    Bercot adored Maserati and was most respectful. The hydraulics were used in Maseratis because Giulio Alfieri requested them being much more efficient for braking and allowing interesting assisted steering and clutch possibilities (though he went too far, the hydraulic seat and headlight adjustment were over the top), NOT because Citroen imposed them. When during a Bercot visit in Modena Guy Malleret suggested that SM engine cam covers should perhaps carry the Maserati word and Trident Bercot answered "Monsieur Malleret nothing would please me more."

    The decision to produce the Khamsin was made by the board which at the time included in no particular order Giulio Alfieri, Malleret (again representing Bercot), Drieux and Omar Orsi who was still there in an honorary position.
     
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  10. italiancars

    italiancars F1 Rookie

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    Marc,
    While true, probably the heart and soul of Maserati, its longest tenured employee left when Citroen took over. Guerino Bertocchi.
     
  11. boralogist

    boralogist Formula Junior

    Jun 21, 2005
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    NOT CORRECT.
    G.B. left Maserati 3 years after the Citroen takeover in 1971.
    If it wasn't for his input the Bora would never have been the car we know today.

    An amazing man!
    R.I.P.
     
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  12. AMLC

    AMLC Formula Junior

    Apr 4, 2009
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    I'm surprised. When #396 was for sale some years ago there was a picture of a similar document from Maserati Classiche. According to that document the engine number was AM115/10/49*396*
     
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  13. Froggie

    Froggie Karting

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    The 4900 Indy, produced in 1971, already had sort of asymetrical vents on the hood because of the extra third vent added, compared to the earlier Indy models.
    Maybe that helped going fwd with the asymetrical venting on the hood of the Khamsin in 1973...
     
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  14. italiancars

    italiancars F1 Rookie

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    While Bertocchi had input on the Bora, he made it well known he didn’t like mid engine cars for the road. It was also well known that he had been pushing for the Orsi family to sell to DeTomaso and not Citroen. While Alfieri was pushing for Citroen. The fact that Bertocchi left Maserati for DeTomaso and one of the first things DeTomaso did when he gained control of Maserati was to fire Alfieri and appoint Bertocchi’s son Aurelio as his replacement.
     
  15. Nembo1777

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    Hello all,
    In post 8058 Elliott asked a very valid question: who was involved in the decision to produce the Khamsin. I explained who was on the board of directors (there might also have been a lawyer or two present as well). Anyway then somehow the conversation veered off towards a technician, Guerrino Bertocchi who is completely off topic for the Khamsin since he was fired by Maserati before even the first Khamsin test mule was born. There are many half truths about him so I will in a few minutes start a separate thread about him. Please do not discuss him here but in that thread, give me a few minutes, quite a bit to write.
     
  16. Nembo1777

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    It is obviously embarrassing to ask Fabio now about such a trivial topic considering what Italy is going through, but I will tomorrow. He has been working from home as is now mandatory due to confinement so he does not have access to the archives but we will see what he has to say.
     
  17. gopp

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    Hi Marc,

    I just checked the stamping on 008/0008 and in typical Italian manner the chassis has 008 and the number plate 0008.

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    Best regards
    Marius

     
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  18. Nembo1777

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    Hi Marius, yes typical: what else is nuovo:)
     
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  19. 2fast4us

    2fast4us Karting

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    Ciao Marius,

    I have the same as on 008 on 404, but all black. Do you know the maker and where to to get one?

    Rolf
     
  20. 2fast4us

    2fast4us Karting

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    quite right Walter. Do you happen to know maker and possible availability?
     
  21. Nembo1777

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    Rolf can you please let us know on the bell housing of 404 (the casting around the flywheel and clutch at the back of the engine bay, the numbers are stamped on top), does the engine say 115-404 or 120-404?
    See Ivan's post 8045 previous page to see what it looks like.

    I believe later Khamsins have AM120 stamped on the engine block, some here disagree.

    Since yours is one of the very last cars that would help the discussion we are having now, herzlichen dank:)
     
  22. gopp

    gopp Karting
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    Hi Rolf,

    I'm sorry, but I don't know the vendor. The only stamping I can find is on the attached picture. I even took it apart, needed any way since it will be cleaned before mounted again, and there is no hints inside it either.

    I would also like to know more about this side mirror, since it looks very cool, and don't vibrate. The build quality is superior the Vitaloni series I have seen.

    Best regards
    Marius

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  23. wbaeumer

    wbaeumer F1 Veteran
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    Vitaloni?
     
  24. Nembo1777

    Nembo1777 F1 Veteran
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    So I tried to email Fabio at Maserati Classiche but now they are completely shut down till May 4, not even work email from home:

    Thanks for getting in touch,

    I am currently out of office until May the 4th 2020 with no access to e-mail.

    Best Regards

    Fabio Collina
     

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