News

Maserati Alfieri became the Ferrari Roma

Discussion in 'California/Portofino/Roma' started by rob lay, Nov 14, 2019.

  1. REALZEUS

    REALZEUS F1 Veteran

    Feb 16, 2011
    5,728
    Bournemouth, UK
    I don't have issues with platform sharing either, after all Ferrari will be doing the development and Maserati is also a top marque. From what they have said so far though, Ferraris don't share their platforms. That might change in the future, especially in regard to the FUV.
     
    Camlet1 likes this.
  2. 4th_gear

    4th_gear F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 18, 2013
    4,378
    Full Name:
    Michael
    Hmm...no, unless Maserati was also meant to be first (before Ferrari) with a DCT... first with metal retractable roof, first with direct injection flat-plane V8 Ferrari engine. Make sense?

    Maserati is currently a "lifestyle" brand and not a "technology" brand so I do not expect it to leapfrog Ferrari when it comes to performance technology.
     
    Fireman1291 likes this.
  3. Igor Ound

    Igor Ound F1 Veteran

    Sep 30, 2012
    7,027
    The Horn
    Full Name:
    Igor Ound
    hmm...I’d say yes

    https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/motor-shows-geneva-motor-show/ferrari-boss-we-need-reconsider-california
     
  4. bitzman

    bitzman Formula 3

    Feb 15, 2008
    2,279
    [​IMG]






    Overall I see a heavy Jaguar influence, which I find disconcerting, but on the other hand I have only seen it in pictures, and my opinions are subject to change once I see it in person.
    This is meant to be a luxury touring car, thus is devoid of adjustable rear spoiler and race car inspired scoops and vents. Ut has ehat ha been described as "vestigal" rear seats so it is a 2-plus-2 though as a former owner of a GTC/4, I'd have to compare rear sears to consider it built in the spirit of that fine tourer.
    The engine is a twin-turbocharged V-8 engine rated at 620 horsepower and said to capable of rpowering it from zero to sixty miles-per-hour in about 3.3 seconds.
    SIDE Nothing new, roofline similar to many cars including Jaguar. Surprising no side vent (could have brought back 275GTB "gills." Front fender shapes are very 365GTB/4 "Daytona"

    REAR:Very Jaguarish, especially rear backlite shape. Woul have preferred round taillamps. Round exhausts look like out of the 1950s, Having a brighter horizontal "blade" light up is interesting but nothing about the rear "says" Ferrari.

    FRONT Mixed bag. I like the framelss eggcrate grille, shades of the '50s Mondial 500. But bifurcated headlamps could be from any Japanese sporty car.Bonnet rather plain except for'60s XKE style bont blister, would have preferred some heat exhaust vents.

    INTERIOR Like the 2020 Corvette, no longer a round steering wheel. Dash seems busy on passenger side too. Predominant gauge seems to be tachometer. Screen disolay very "busy" on console--wonder it it's right up with current Japanese cars or out-of-date before it even hits the showorroms? The materials inside are top notvh-- stitched and bolstered leathers, polished metals and carbon fiber.
    THE NAME In their press releae they refer n an elier time in the '50s and '60s so i think the name is supposed to recall La Dolce Vita where i seemed life was one long party....
    IN SUM: Ferrari needed a more luxuryiinspred model as too msny of the other models are chock-a-block with vents, scoops, spoilersm stuff that screams you can't wait to run 'er up to 200 mph.
     
  5. ohno

    ohno Karting

    Sep 10, 2009
    58
    And so it was and will ever be...
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
    anunakki, R J and gt_lusso like this.
  6. gt_lusso

    gt_lusso Karting

    Oct 24, 2013
    164
    Yep. Industrial design, art, arcitechture, music, movies, books, pop culture and so on, it all a reflection of the time we live in.
    The DB4 and 250 is just breathtaking. The golden age of front engined vehicles...
     
  7. 4th_gear

    4th_gear F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 18, 2013
    4,378
    Full Name:
    Michael
    #32 4th_gear, Nov 17, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2019
    Errr... you need to actually read what was written in that journo’s article. While he reports Marchionne’s disappointment with the soft nature of the California the journo did not say Marchionne claims the car was originally a Maserati. Instead it is the journo Richard Bremner who reported some 3rd or 4th party reference to the old rumour a-la-Bill-Taylor anti-Trump fake news fashion.

    Here’s another, more detailed recount of what Marchionne said on that occasion which also only mentions the old rumour again in 3rd or 4th party reference to the old rumour a-la-Bill-Taylor anti-Trump fake news fashion.

    You should know better, especially given the fake news driven by the media in the interest of supporting narratives that favour entities that they are doing their bidding for. The media is corrupt.

    BTW, since you quote media stories, here’s a detail report on Michael Schumacher’s involvement in designing the Cali... Schumacher stated that participating in the project since the very beginning had been “really fascinating and great fun.”.

    The article also said...

    ...Comparing the new California with Ferrari’s most recent model, the F430 Scuderia, Schumacher said that despite being very different, both cars still offer amazing performance. “The F430 Scuderia is, of course, a more extreme model with a focus on absolutely cutting-edge performance. However, although the Ferrari California is very much a grand tourer in terms of its usability and high level of interior comfort, it is still surprisingly sporty and fun to drive under any kind of conditions," he explained...

    Why would Michael Schumacher of Scuderia Ferrari be working on a Maserati from the beginning? If you ask me, the rumour of the Cali being a Maserati has never been substantiated probably because it was done to hurt Ferrari’s sales, probably to help Mercedes-AMG as the Cali copied the folding metal hardtop of their GT and directly took away Mercedes-AMG SL-Klasse customers.

    Well, the rumour failed and the Ferrari California became Ferrari’s all-time biggest seller with most owners being first time Ferrari owners.

    BTW, the Portofino was developed under Marchionne’s helm. Was that also a Maserati project like the Roma?
     
  8. Igor Ound

    Igor Ound F1 Veteran

    Sep 30, 2012
    7,027
    The Horn
    Full Name:
    Igor Ound
    Either way I personally like the california and if it was a maserati at first I wouldn’t mind at all.
     
  9. 4th_gear

    4th_gear F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 18, 2013
    4,378
    Full Name:
    Michael
    That's good to know but deriding the car is a strange way to express that sentiment and whether you like the car is also not the point. The point is that some journos pretend to be professional authorities but blatantly lie to fool people who read their articles.

    As we see with fake news in the media, journalists blatantly cook up fake reports to fool the Public. What's the point in people reading FChat to be informed if the stuff they read come from people who just parrot and magnify rumours from "tabloid journalists"?
     
  10. Igor Ound

    Igor Ound F1 Veteran

    Sep 30, 2012
    7,027
    The Horn
    Full Name:
    Igor Ound
    #35 Igor Ound, Nov 17, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2019
    deriding? Where? o_O

    anyway, did find this interesting. Not that it means much:

    https://www.************.com/threads/was-the-ferrari-california-supposed-to-be-a-maserati.6319/post-65777
    *(replace asterisks with “maserati life” all together without the space in between)
     
  11. 4th_gear

    4th_gear F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 18, 2013
    4,378
    Full Name:
    Michael
    I don’t know how you can claim ignorance. The complaint from the OP was that the California was a Maserati being oversold as a Ferrari for an extra $100,000. That’s a clear complaint. By supporting that mistaken notion your comments simply contribute to the error.

    No Maserati has a flat plane V8, a DCT, direct fuel injection, a metal retractable hardtop roof ...or even standard carbon ceramic brakes (another first for Ferrari when the Cali was introduced)... or design and marketing input from a Ferrari F1 driving champion. Even today, 11 years after it was introduced, no Maserati performs at the same level as the original Ferrari California.

    You are not a neophyte to evaluating the technical qualities of performance cars from Ferrari and Maserati. I am astounded by your failure to think over your assertions before posting them.
     
    Fireman1291 likes this.
  12. Continental AutoSports

    Sponsor

    Aug 22, 2006
    2,728
    Hinsdale, IL
    Full Name:
    Parts Department
    At quick glance, I believe it's borderline identical. Take away the extremely dated portholes on the Maserati and you have a Roma. Couldn't agree more.
     
    rob lay likes this.
  13. italiancars

    italiancars Formula 3

    Apr 18, 2004
    2,445
    Hershey, PA
    The platform that became the California was originally the replacement for Maserati’s 4200. The shift in the structure of FIAT in moving Maserati from being part of Ferrari to part of FIAT Auto paired with Alfa under the direction of Harald Wester wanted a larger Grand Touring car with more usable rear seats to be built on a shortened Quattroporte platform, thus freeing up the previous platform developed under Ferrari for their use.
     
  14. Doug23

    Doug23 Karting

    Jun 23, 2017
    163
    Italy
    The Portofino-based Alfieri was still confirmed in June 2018 (the aluminum spaceframe was clearly visible on a slide shown at FCA Capital Markets Day).
    So I don't think Alfieri became Roma, because both of them were in development in the same timeframe
     
  15. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
    Staff Member Admin Owner Miami 2018

    Dec 1, 2000
    49,569
    Southlake, TX
    Full Name:
    Rob Lay
    exterior design
     
  16. montpellier

    montpellier Formula Junior

    Aug 27, 2009
    639
    Europe
    Full Name:
    Paul
    So the Alfieri is being built on a Ferrari platform then .
     
  17. italiancars

    italiancars Formula 3

    Apr 18, 2004
    2,445
    Hershey, PA
    the Alfieri is not being built. The new Maserati sports car that will debut next year will be a mid engine carbon fiber car with an IC engine (more than likely a modified version of the Alfa QV 6) but it will have tha capability to use hybrid or ev propulsion.
     
  18. amenasce

    amenasce Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 17, 2001
    26,852
    Paris / Chicago
    Full Name:
    Andrew Menasce
    Maserati should have started selling that car 4 years ago.
     
  19. Luque

    Luque Formula Junior

    Oct 16, 2009
    461
    Italy
    I don't what your source is but your statement is not correct. Tha car you refer to is the project M240 that has nothing to do with Alfieri project that has codename M189. The M189 will be produced from Q4/2021 in Turin AGAP
    Luque
     
  20. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
    Staff Member Admin Owner Miami 2018

    Dec 1, 2000
    49,569
    Southlake, TX
    Full Name:
    Rob Lay
    best statement I've seen yet!
     
  21. italiancars

    italiancars Formula 3

    Apr 18, 2004
    2,445
    Hershey, PA
    I agree neither has anything to do with one another. the M189 is the replacement for the GranTurismo and is not the Alfieri, yes it will be built in Torino. The M240 will be built at Via Cairo Menotti in Modena where the GranTurismo was built which is currently shutdown and undergoing retooling for the M240.
     
  22. 4th_gear

    4th_gear F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 18, 2013
    4,378
    Full Name:
    Michael
    #47 4th_gear, Nov 19, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2019
    There is a universe of difference between a platform and an actual car. For example the VW MLBevo platform is used on both the A4 and the Lambo Urus, so would you back the notion that Lambo took an A4 and made it into the Urus? It would be a ludicrous notion.

    Ferrari owned 50% of Maserati from 1997 to 2005. That's not full ownership. Ferrari may have been developing a new platform for sports cars while they held 50% of Maserati but that doesn't mean the platform was dedicated to ONE CAR, a Maserati that they only had 50% interest in at that. Most car makers use their platforms on multiple cars. It's very expensive to develop a platform and Maserati is a small volume maker.

    So to claim Ferrari changed a Maserati into a Ferrari is an incredibly silly claim.

    So FIAT took back Ferrari's 50% share of Maserati in 2005 and the Maserati 4200 Coupé was then replaced by the Maserati GranTurismo in 2007. The GranCabrio was introduced in 2009. Both were derived from the M139 Maserati platform. Shown below are the 3 platforms. IMO, the GranTurismo is an excellent successor to the 4200 and extends the luxury lifestyle image of the Maserati label. The wheelbases are as follows:

    WHEELBASE
    4200 - 104.7"
    GranTurismo - 115.8"
    California - 105.1"


    Similarly, there are big differences between the Roma and the Alfieri. While I would agree the Roma is being marketed as a lifestyle model, this is a case of Ferrari encroaching on Maserati and not the opposite. Why would Ferrari make a Maserati that they only have 50% share compete with the high performance Ferrari label? A Ferrari exec who does that would likely have to leave the company. As it was, it was Maserati that left Ferrari.

    WHEELBASE
    Roma - 105.1"
    Alfieri - 106.29"


     
  23. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
    Staff Member Admin Owner Miami 2018

    Dec 1, 2000
    49,569
    Southlake, TX
    Full Name:
    Rob Lay
    I'm sure the platforms are vastly different. Ferrari would never admit to any lineage with Maserati.

    Just compare the designs side by side.
     
  24. 4th_gear

    4th_gear F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 18, 2013
    4,378
    Full Name:
    Michael
    Well, I was just replying to italiancars.

    He claims Ferrari was developing a platform for the 4200's replacement which eventually became the California. I'm not actually disputing that possibility because it may well have happened but carmakers almost never develop unique platforms for 1 car model, especially a low volume, relatively low price model in their lineup. And Ferrari did not even own more than 50% of the brand. Ferrari may have forced Maserati to share the costs of the platform's development - this is the kind of politics that happen in conglomerates comprising multiple brands. Platforms are usually used on many models over many years, at least to recoup development, materials and factory setup costs.

    Anyway, there is a huge difference between sharing a platform and actually being the same car.
     
  25. italiancars

    italiancars Formula 3

    Apr 18, 2004
    2,445
    Hershey, PA
    You may want to do a bit more research, Ferrari “purchase” 50% of Maserati in 1997. In 1999 Ferrari “purchased” the remainder of Maserati.

    The California platform was originally designated to be the replacement for the 4200, whether or not Ferrari intended to simultaneously also use the platform to launch the California as cost sharing with the 4200 replacement is open to speculation. What isn’t speculation is that the California was launched into a new lower end market segment for Ferrari, one in which Maserati occupied.

    https://www.forbes.com/global/2001/0514/036.html#393b19136b11

     

Share This Page