I've never dealt with him so I'm not is a position to comment. He's only about 30 minutes from me though.
We seem to look at a car and decide on a valuation based on the mileage-there is a lot more to a car than that,even a Ferrari!
Yes, that's quite right. There aren't so many 550s for sale in the UK right now so if someone particularly wanted that colour combination or whatever. But anyway, the point is that someone decided that car was worth that price to them.
When I see a disconnect between dealer prices and also what individuals get when trying to sell their own cars vs auction prices it always makes me wonder. Some of the manual results on BAT and Collecting Cars seem fishy to me. Sounds like dealers/interested parties trying to prop up pricing for these cars and create hype. I am happy to be proven wrong but the disconnect between these auction prices and physical world experience seems too large to me.
Agree. You only need to see some of the off-the-scale 430 manual sales on BAT and then see where they pop up afterwards. I suspect that valuations for financing might drive some of this, but have no hard evidence. A lot of people who bought in the go-go years are probably underwater on their financing.
Dealers have been engineering auction results ever since 2014, and the game has long moved away from hyping ferraris and 80s euro cars. That is yesterday's news. They're on to other games now. Honda civics and mass produced mercedes benzes from the late 90s, etc. are their new game. It's all about trying to create something out of nothing to try to keep the bucks flowing in. Just two months ago I got a text from a friend showing a 1996 s500 coupe with 157k miles on it. An 11 thousand dollar car at best. But the story gets better, "this car was owned by Michael jordan" at one point. I've always had my eye out for a neat C140, the dealer/broker who got their slimey hands on it says, "were going to auction it soon but if you want to make an offer feel free and maybe we can come to a deal." I said no thanks I'll watch the ebay auction. Auction hits 200 thousand dollars for a 12 grand car. I texted my friend back and said "watch the high bidders miraculously disappear and the car gets put up for sale on the website for a stupid asking price." And that is EXACTLY what happened. I wonder what they're going to try to hype next. These people are slime https://www.beverlyhillscarclub.com/1996-mercedes-benz-s600-lorinser-michael-jordan-c-11325.htm I actually emailed the salesman back and told him that I know the owner of an ex Jordan car that is actually worth 100k dollars market value (true story). So apparently, having a famous person sit in it makes it worth 20x market value (total nonsense). So I told him I'll go buy it this week and then sell it to you for 1.8 million dollars, a discount of 200 grand. What do you think? And of course, he didn't want the car! Go figure!
The fact is that there is just too much choice in the 100-200k bracket. Want $250k for you manual F430, sure keep sitting there and asking for it, I will just go buy a CS or a Scuderia (or a 458 Italia) for $75-100K less and drive it. One of the reasons I never bought into the manual hype is that it makes no sense to me that a manual is priced 2-4x higher than a non-manual model because it is much better to drive but then you can't drive it because its now a collectible. On top of everything else the fact that each of these cars (F430, 575M, 612 and 599) can now be converted to a manual is definitely going to cap the upside. Manuals being 10-30% higher priced makes sense to me due to rarity and ease of maintenance.
You are of course free to choose whatever you wish to buy, although your profile says you don’t own a Ferrari. Manual 575s are somewhere between 50 and 100 per cent more than F1s, manual 599s more than that, manual 456s hardly any premium (though the alternative is an auto, not an automated manual). Manual 991s also no more desirable. It’s about relative build numbers and demand. If they had made one manual 458, it would likely be worth a million or more. by the same token, in the UK manual 430s are selling for around 30-50 per cent more than F1s, manual 360s are more or less within your estimate percentage. but what is completely wrong is a view that you can’t drive a car because it’s a collectible. In normal times there are hundreds of events every year with owners driving the hell out of Ferraris worth a multiple of the relatively modest models we are discussing here. Many people with collectible cars drive them, because that’s why they bought them.
Nice LHD 550 on collecting cars, it's second appearance having failed to meet reserve in July with a high bid of £62,000 New listing https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/1997-ferrari-550-maranello-1 Previous listing. https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/1997-ferrari-550-maranello These look really nice in Le Mans blue.
I get your point. The 550 only came in manual, so maybe that is the best one to buy... Because it can only be a manual and no one will think it is a F1, or a converted F1 to manual.
You're going to see alot of 575s converted to manual after this market implodes. 575s will eventually be cheap enough that spending 10 to 15 grand to convert won't be a big deal.
I do not disagree with you and I will clarify that even though I live in Europe now I have spent most of my professional life in the US and have a US centric view on assets. I know that in Europe mileage matters less but in the US most of these "rare and collectible" manuals were being bought and parked in garages. I clearly remember that at the height of the frenzy when manual 575's were selling at or above $300k there was a high miles manual 575 advertised for $120-140K here on Ferrarichat and it sat forever. Not sure where it went or for how much eventually but there was no rush to buy it at a time when low miles cars were being sold in days or even hours. Also when these manual cars pop us for sale a year or two later you notice that there is barely any change in the mileage. P.S. From your history on Ferrarichat, I also know that you own and enjoy your cars rather than "collecting" them and I salute you for that.
To save you V12 Ferrari in your garage is about as fun as having a sexy woman and never have sex with her. What a shame!
So without even going live for bidding this particular 550 is now showing as sold at £66,350 I guess they got a offer that was worth accepting. That works out at about £62,500 + 6% https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/1997-ferrari-550-maranello-1
I'm not surprised the vendor took that. £500 more than the previous high bid (and they've had time to think about the previous auction). It seems like quite a strong price for an ex-Japan car albeit that, unusually, it does have some history from when it was in Japan.
As I buyer I would probably have preferred it to the ex-Hammond car that sold recently for £60k plus commission. Much lower miles and much nicer colour, although it's LHD. So it feels like a fairly sensible result to me.
It's been a while since KHPC had a 550 for sale. Always sensibly priced from this dealer. If Argento over nero does it for you and you want what looks like a tidy driver with the assurance of buying from a well respected dealer, this could be for you. https://www.tfcgb.com/used-cars/12032131-ferrari-550-maranello/
I'm not keen on Argento or black interiors. Any blue, any green or Grigio Titanio for me, preferably with a light interior.
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£66350 is the sale price I think? That’s how CC records all of their other sales I understand. So with 6% on top of that price it’s a total of £70331. Nice to see a few sales go through after a glut of missed reserves. Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
It seems to vary and there's little consistency. This one for instance, winning bid was £59,500, shows SOLD at £63,000 https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/2000-ferrari-550-maranello Most seem to include the fees, but not all. In the case of the LHD 550 I'm assuming as it never made the auctions there'd been a negotiation going on since it last listed and there was finally a sale, there may have been some form of agreement about the level of commission as well - we just don't know. After my bidding on the 550 last week and having a few discussions on Pistonheads about the car, it's listing status and the legalities surrounding them I got a call out of the blue from Ed Lovatt to discuss my opinion. He openly said they remove no sales from the site and come to arrangements with regard to other matters. So we have to take it all with a pinch of salt, it seems we're being presented with figures they would like us to see as opposed to absolute numbers. If that makes sense.
Mmmmm... I want to comment on "will eventually be cheap enough.." In my opinion, I think they took a deep enough dip already! I mean, lower than 60-70K would mean a drop for the whole Auto market. Consider the age of 575s, with time, I guess not many good ones would be arround. Don't forget the prices of spare parts shooting up by the minute, which means sleepers (neglected ones) would cost soooooo much to service and fix up in the future I imagine. (Advantage for good & running cars). Also, look at the market of new cars in general, some how, most cars R getting alike somehow, so early 2000s and before cars and the individuality between them of different manufacturers is fading. In which would have an effect IMO on the values of the old generation supercars in general. Just guessing, and telling my opinion regarding this matter. Might be biased as a 575m owner my self though But that is my honest opinion anyhow TC,,
